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warren:alright, we're live. once again, on cellular healing tv, episode61. i'm warren phillips, here as co-host. dr. pompa:you can [0:15] i'm throwing him off. i'm in his space. warren:we haven't done a show in a while. i've been busy. dr. pompa:it's true! yeah, warren hasn't been there.

warren:i'm really excited to be back. we're getting great feedback on phil kaplanbeing on the show, co-hosting with dr. pompa. thank you. phil's going to be on with us more. we're definitely integrating some of his strategiesand solutions in with cellular healing tv. we want to bring it to the world. speaking of which, we're on top of the worldright now. we're on the 66th floor at the westin. dr. pompa:show them.

warren:we have a training with our doctors, so there's the downtown—well, it's a side of downtownatlanta. it's over there. we like to show you where we're at when we'retraining. dr. pompa:you can see the stadium there or somewhere. oh, it's blocking it. [0:56] you could see the stadium. warren:anyway, we take you with us wherever we go. we do have an event here where we're trainingour platinum physicians, so we do have a network

of doctors, if you need to be coached, justso you know. you can write us through drpompa.com. go to our website. now we can hook you up with one of our trainedpractitioners. dr. pompa:this topic is actually something i'm always reminding our doctors what we do and why it'sso different. warren:it is different. dr. pompa:functional medicine has gotten very popular. functional medicine.

people always say to me, "what do you do?" there's always this great pause, because inever know quite how to explain it. i end up coming out with, when i'm speakingto other practitioners, "i guess it's functional medicine." immediately i say, "yeah, but it's—" it'sjust i hate saying that word. you can tell that i'm pausing, because i— warren:one, it's not medicine, because we're not practicing—and two, it has a bad name. it's the this for that.

it's like, here's functional medicine. it's not that well known right now, but itis getting some legs, and it does help people. it's running some blood work— dr. pompa:some people use the word "functional nutrition," which i would say that's a little more appropriate,right? that's not what's more known. functional medicine is what's caught on. i hate the word, because i feel like we dosome things that are so much greater, better. to me, functional medicine is giving peoplemore vitamins and minerals.

homeopathy, whatever it is. whatever you're doing. warren:it all has value, but it's not really— dr. pompa:yeah, it all has value. i'm not saying it doesn't. warren:—our core concept. dr. pompa:right, but our core concept obviously does pull back to the cell. this show talks about ancient healing strategies.

now, ancient healing strategies is a partof how we got our lives back. warren:yeah, god put this on your heart. dr. pompa:absolutely. we had to fix the cell to get well. ancient healing strategies, things that reallywork with the body's innate intelligence, the intelligence that god put there, thathave been around for thousands of years, that i find very few practitioners actually do. very few. my history, actually, in this, obviously startswith our own interest.

even before i got sick, i had a great interestin this type of healing. with the philosophy that hey, if we just removethe interference, the body can do the healing. our detox, that surrounds what we do at thecellular level. it surrounds, really, everything that godhas shown us with that philosophy in healing. a lot of it came back when i had an interestin fasting. warren:actually, it started when you were a kid and your mom told you god made dirt and dirt won'thurt. we'll explain why that's important later inthe show. dr. pompa:that's true.

i played in dirt. when you just said that, i immediately wentback and i started visualizing places where i played in the dirt. yeah, i could see it there in my backyard. i could see— warren:there's truth inside of that statement. dr. pompa:yeah, no doubt. actually, ironically enough, this is a littlefunny story— warren:i'm getting you off on a [3:59] trail.

dr. pompa:i like this, though. i don't mind it. i decided to sell dirt. this is a true story. my idea was, let's go around and we'll getall the cans we can. the old coke cans that were in the neighborhood. we had this, what i convinced everybody wasreally good dirt. actually, i think it was. it was this really soft, amazing dirt.

i thought that this dirt would grow people'svegetables better. i thought we could sell the dirt. literally i had all of the kids in the neighborhood,we were filling up cans of dirt. we had hundreds. we put them in our little red wagons and hookedthem up to our bikes, and we went door-to-door selling dirt. of course people bought it, right? they didn't buy it because they thought thatthey wanted dirt. they bought it because they felt bad for us.

warren:right, right. quarter a can. dr. pompa:i literally thought i was going to go into the dirt business. i'm thinking, if these people bought it, thenof course, we can go beyond that. if i'd have known warren back then, we would'vebeen in the dirt business. warren:we would've been. it's a good business. it is.

we could have sod farms. it'd be all-organic, though dr. pompa:fast forward, though. the dirt is healing. we're partly in the dirt business, givingpeople microorganisms, which is a 180. the bacteria that was in that dirt, whichi didn't know, i should've told them to eat it. if i could've convinced them to eat it, iwould've changed lives even then. warren:back in the day, jordan [5:16] one of his

number one products was soil organisms. dr. pompa:dirt, yeah. warren:it transformed people's guts. let's get back to your ancient healing strategies. fasting. way back, the [5:25] days of water fasting. dr. pompa:yeah, water fasting. i took an interest in water fasting. i don't recall how i got there, but it isan ancient healing.

animals do it instinctively. i was very into, the body knows what to do. still am. it's still what i preach and teach. the body does know what to do. i'm always reminding my clients that oftentimes,we just have to step out of the way. warren, i have some really difficult clientsand cases. you learn in it. through the years, i've learned that whensomebody's body is starting to shut down—and

it just so happens i have three cases rightnow that i'm dealing with this on. they come in droves, where you get the really,really hard ones. i watched something happen in these casesevery time. we get to the point that they literally, andthis is always hard to believe, but they can't eat one bite food. they definitely can't take a supplement, theycan't take medication, and their body reacts. imagine this. warren:it'd be scary. dr. pompa:one of my recent clients who may be watching,

he literally went 12 days, because every timehe even tried water—he went 3 days without water. he would drink water and he would react. one thing i've learned in this time is totell the person, "listen to the body. don't eat." the scary part for them is, and it's alwaysthe same, is they think they're dying. they think that they're starving to death. men get down to, typically, 90 to 100 pounds,depending on their bone size, and women get down to 80 pounds.

that's typically where i see them level off. people watching this are going, "oh my gosh,how possible could that be good?" warren:this is in really, really challenged— dr. pompa:absolutely, but you learn in it. i'll bring the point around to everyone watching. the point is, is the body instinctively knewwhat to do. that was to fast, to go without food and justdrink water. they always say the same thing. "how do i know when to stop?"

by the way, when they're in this mode, theyactually feel good. it's when they start to add stuff that theyreally start to react. i say, "you'll know." warren:you know what is crazy, is that fasting, water fasting, has been around—it's obviouslya spiritual thing, but it's been around thousands and thousands of years. ancient chinese. before christ, all that fasting. biblical times.

fasting's so important spiritually and forhealth reasons, and we just—"god doesn't know. we'll fix it better with a pill." they throw it out and throw out all the ancientwisdom, and the body knows. dr. pompa:listen, animals do it instinctively. when an animal gets hurt or they get sick,they don't eat. they can go days and days and days. i always tell the story about—years ago,i had a client that fasted for over 26—it was almost 27 days.

i would say 26 1/2. warren:she was medically supervising this, by the way, for this particular client. dr. pompa:you have to watch your electrolytes. electrolytes are the only thing that haveto be monitored. if your sodium potassium levels drop to acertain point, then you have to give electrolytes during the fast. a little bit of salt water, typically, cankeep someone going. people can fast, obviously biblical [8:43]40 days or more.

i've seen 60 some days people fast, for multiple—tumorsand things. the body goes through a healing process that'sremarkable. this one woman that i spoke of, her tongue,of course, turned white, which we see happen with people on four-day fasts. warren:oh, it happens to me on a four-day fast. the fungus coming out. dr. pompa:hers went from white to green to black. black was coming out of her ears. hairy black.

i'm not kidding. her armpits. things were just purging. she stunk so bad her family had to quarantineher in her separate room and blow fans, creating negative air pressure in the room. that's how bad. she came out of it healed. that's an amazing thing. my wife, a lot of you watching this don'tknow this, but she fasted 13 days on just

she was diagnosed with cervical cancer. we chose to do that. of course, she came out of that with no cervicalcancer. they said, "you can do what you want, butyou're going to need to do this." of course, we didn't need to do this. warren:what a miracle. dr. pompa:that was before we knew my wife had lead issues. that was before my wife had methylation issues. read our 5r article.

that's that story. warren:coincidence, miracle, or did the fasting work? dr. pompa:that was when i was just learning about fasting. i said, "you've got to fast." i was reading her all these things about fasting. anyways, remarkable things happen when peoplego without food. these clients, they always ask me this question,just like the gal who fasted for 26 days. "how do i know when i should eat again?" i said, "your body will tell you."

"how?" "you'll get hungry." "i'm hungry now." it's like, "no, no, no. there's a difference of appetite, and there'sa difference of hunger." if you smell food and you salivate, that'sappetite. hunger is a deep, deep, deep feeling, andit's very, very different. your body goes into a protein-sparing modearound three or four days; typically, right around three days.

then what happens is, that's when the magicstarts. your body will literally, and this is alwaysabout survival, will burn out the toxic tissue in your body before it will go after its protein,because it knows it wants to hold onto that little bit of muscle that it needs to stayerect to stay living, its heart, etcetera. it goes into this [11:01] protein. that's why i like four-day fasts, right? i don't like three days, because you don'tenter that healing moment until after that three days. the body does these amazing things duringthat time, and it will burn out all of this

[11:14]. that's why you see all the black tongues andall this stuff happening. it's really an amazing thing to watch someoneheal during this time. these people, after 12 days, hunger came in,and he started to eat. magically, he could start to ingest foodsand even take supplements. we see this occur, and it's really neat towatch. i've watched it enough that i'm confidentwhen i have to tell somebody to, "okay, just don't eat." of course, you don't go that route at first.

it evolves into that. warren:plus you said to me, dan—dr. pompa, sorry. dr. pompa:dan. warren:dan. most people, you wouldn't recommend doingthis on their own. no, i mean, look, that's why we do, typically,four-day fasts and things like that. everybody can fast those periods of time. long periods, you do have to watch the electrolytes,and you should do it with a doctor. we've trained doctors in these types of thingsaround the country for various reasons.

this is one of the things we call ancienthealing, and it's part of what we do. it's part of how we fix the cell. utilizing that innate intelligence. getting out of the way. the body has an amazing, amazing ability toheal. i think water fasting is the extreme example,and we'll talk about some other things that i think most of our viewers will be interestedin. it is that extreme. there's some people who do better, oftentimes,with what we call intermittent fasting, where

we bring the calories down between 500 and800. i think for most people, that's a way to getsome benefits out of fasting, where you have this growth hormone rise, protein-sparingmode, without water fasting. i think that water fasts are very appropriate. like i said, in these cases, the body wastelling them don't eat, don't eat. we utilize intermittent fasting, which weget, just to summarize. there's articles written on intermittent fasting. i talk about block intermittent fasting, whenwe take someone for four days to fourteen days, bringing their caloric intake down tosomewhere between 500 and 800, maximum 1000,

in a day. we're doing it with ancient healing again. beef stock fasts, right? whey water. those are two things that have been aroundfor thousands and thousands of years, just like water fasting, where we put people onjust beef stock. that actually controls the electrolytes. that's why it's easier. it has minerals.

it has things. beef stock has type 2 collagen. it offers different types of healing. when you do that, you starved out all thebacteria in the gut, good and bad. then when you come out of that fast, you reinoculate. now you can fix the dysbiosis. warren:you start eating dirt then? dr. pompa:that's when you start eating dirt or bacteria. warren:or dirt like products.

i think one of them is prescript-assist. dr. pompa:yeah, exactly. i was going to reach behind me and grab it,but that was in my room. our rooms look alike. warren:i think— dr. pompa:did you get it? no. anyways. there is a dirt product that we have calledprescript-assist.

yeah, then we bring in different bacteria,but also, fermented foods, after this fast. after you starve down all the bacteria aftera beef stock fast, then it's important to reinoculate. we come in with these dirt pills, cans ofdirt. we come in with different, even regular probiotics,but also, fermented foods, where you get trillions of very unique bacteria. warren:right, so whatever's in the soil with the organic cabbage that's out there, you don'twash it. you keep that on there and you ferment that.

you grind it up, put in some suero or followa fermentation strategy. you can buy fermentation kits online, andall those little good bugs that happen to be in the ground are now on your cabbage. now they grow in your little fermentation dr. pompa:it's funny, because when i buy organic vegetables, i don't wash them. warren: except if, this new company's—it'sorganic, and they're using some—i don't know what company that was, but there's alwaysthe facebook media. driscoll organic.

find out yourself. i'm not throwing driscoll under the bus, becausei don't know, but now they're saying—they say. dr. pompa:they say. does washing even help it? the things are inside the plant, and whatyou're washing off, typically, is the good bacteria, which you need. warren:fermented strawberries. oh, that's wine, so we can't do that.

dr. pompa:yeah, don't do that. fermentation brings in these neat bacterias. again, it's ancient healing. warren:it preserves the [15:33]. dr. pompa:that's what i was going to say. refrigeration ended fermentation. warren:yeah, that's the issue. we forget where we came from. what we're designed to do.

ancient healing is really eating normal 150years ago. dr. pompa:yeah, i believe that with that, refrigeration's been really nice, but out went fermentation,which we needed to keep products fresh. that's why they fermented it, is because thebacteria that would build up there would keep it from the bad guys. the good guys would explode. warren:just like on your hands. dr. pompa:yeah, absolutely. good analogy, yeah.

all these good guys would build up duringfermentation, and then the bad guys wouldn't cause the food to become bad. warren, that's a great analogy. all the schools and churches that use theantibacterial soaps, you're doing the same thing. you're wiping out your goods and now you'rethe one that's susceptible. when you're around it and you have all thesegood microbes you're not killing with antibacterial soaps and antibacterial things, that microbiomeprotects you. this is your first line of protection.

the bacteria here, and of course, the bacteriain here. this is our line of protection. actually bacteria—not just bacteria, butfunguses and something called bacteriophage which is almost like a bacteria. by the way, sometimes we put in those bacteriophage,which, this is new research. we're developing more and more of these phage. these guys act like a virus. they go into the bad guys, whether it's salmonella,e-coli, or any of these bad guys, and they inject their dna.

they tow off the bad guys. what this does is allows your good guys totake over. these phage can get into biofilm, so peoplewho have nasty, toxic biofilm that seem—they can never get rid of candida, can never fixtheir gut—these phage can go in and enter into these bad guys, kill them off enoughthat the good guys can explode. phage do not kill the good microorganisms. they kill the bad guys. they're very specific. their target is bad guys.

you should see them. they're like little spiders. warren:yeah, little spaceship-looking things, yeah. dr. pompa:yeah, little spaceship-looking things under an electronic microscope. these things are amazing. they come in and they attach. they have a probe that goes down in and injectsinto the pathogen, and it kills it. now our good guys go—so we've learned somuch about the microbiome.

warren:systemic—shane created one. dr. pompa:ec is the product. capital ec. very specific for e-coli. when i'm dealing with a lot of patients who,[17:59] challenge— warren:terra firma has a phage in it, too. dr. pompa:yes, it does. warren:so does adaptgen. dr. pompa:yep, so these guys, we utilize them to go

in and wipe out [18:08]. now our reinoculation can take over. the point is, it is ancient healing. warren:it seems complicated, but— dr. pompa:it's not. it's not. warren:it's nature. dr. pompa:yeah. we fix the gut.

today, the gut is getting destroyed. we don't ferment things anymore, so we'renot getting the good guys. warren:the good guys that fight the bad guys. dr. pompa:we're killing the good guys. warren:with antibiotics. dr. pompa:antibiotics. over antibiotics, overmedication, and overantibacterial everything. the biggest one of all is glyphosate. it's sprayed on everything that our familiesare eating, unless you're eating 100% organic.

every grain that's conventional and non-organicis sprayed with this stuff. massive amounts. it's putting holes in the gut, causing dysbiosis. here's the big thing. it's killing off bacteria that we need tomake neurotransmitters for our brain. it affects this and it affects this brain. oh, what's our solution? more and more antidepressants. more and more psychotropic drugs trying todeal with anxiety.

we have kids on these things. kids are taking adderall. it's exploding. this is a nightmare. ancient healing is the key. how do we fix it? once your gut's destroyed, this is not right. we bring them through these fasts. sometimes, series of fasts, warren, wherewe do this twice a month.

four days, maybe twice a month. maybe ten days once a month. whatever it is. it's typically applied specifically for thecondition that we're looking at. again, we're here training doctors on thisstuff, and how to do these ancient healings. you're probably getting excited, because sometimesyou're on the business side of things and you forget how amazing it is what we teachthese doctors to do. warren:yeah, it is amazing. everything that dr. pompa's sharing with youis stuff that you've told me to do.

i've had massive results in my health andmy life. some of the new protocols—i have goals everyyear in my health. guys, one of the biggest— dr. pompa:you've kicked butt this year. warren:yeah, i kicked butt. still, i have my weaknesses with managingstress, because i love to do— dr. pompa:that's the last frontier. warren:yeah, that's the last frontier for me. the health thing—last year i had some goals.

every year, i'm setting this health goals,and the reason why is john butcher's program, which we'll send an email out promoting johnbutcher's program here in may. stay tuned in may and i'm going to share thiswith you. what i found in there is your health is thekey category that, it affects every area of your happiness and your life. that's why i've been focusing there on someof these strategies. mainly, the big one that got me last year,in 2014, was the block fast and intermittent fasting. the four-day fasting, the bone broth fasting—whichis, i went viral on youtube with that video

with my daughter. dr. pompa:how to make the bone broth. warren:how to make the bone broth fast. i shared that with our audience, and it'sbeen really powerful for me. it's going to be powerful for you. you have to apply these ancient healing strategies. it's simple, and it doesn't cost you much. it's amazing. we actually did it before.

joe mccullough does a great job. he has a great following, and he's doing alot for wellness and the mission. he released it probably five years ago, butwe recently, in 2014—so all these article are out there under intermittent fast. the reason i said that is we released it rightbefore he did. we beat mccullough to the punch when it gothot in topics. first time, probably the only time, we'llbeat dr. joe to the punch. type in "intermittent fasting." at the top right hand corner, there's a searchtool that says "search."

the little magnifying glass. type in, "intermittent fasting," "bone brothfasting." you'll see some of these articles and someof the systems that we've used and, again, dr. pompa even uses with his most challengedpatients. dr. pompa:the other thing we've utilized is whey water. whey water has been used for thousands ofyears. warren:we've got to thank jordan for that. dr. pompa:its nickname is healing water. hippocrates nicknamed, father of medicinenicknamed whey water.

it's not whey protein, for those watching. it's this gold liquid that comes off whenthey make cheese. beyond organic's whey water is the one weuse. you can tell them how to utilize that. it's actually in most of the articles on howto find that product. whey water is a perfect ratio of sodium potassiumthat matches the ratio at the cell. again, you've got to get well, you've gotto fix the cell. what it does is it keeps—again, people cando long whey water fast because again, it balances the electrolytes.

stock fasting, whey water fasting, typicallyfour, ten days. these types of fasts are easy to do. the first couple days are rough, and thenyour hunger goes away. just like water fast, people, after threedays, aren't hungry, typically after two days on these types of fasts people aren't hungry. water fasting, stock fasting, whey water fasting,for most people, without supervision— warren:stock's bone broth. dr. pompa:bone broth and stock fasting— warren:same, same.

dr. pompa:yeah, and the whey water. then, there is something called intermittentfasting daily. intermittent fasting daily. intermittent fasting is a block type of fast,which we just talked about. days. what about if we did it every day? we do. it's one of the things that i do all the time,is that i go 16, 18 hours without eating. there's nothing new under the sun.

this has been around—let's say in europe,they're still doing this. very few people eat breakfast. i know in this country, it's the 180, is thatbreakfast should be the biggest meal and most important meal of the day. we're not with the way the rest of the worldgoes, by the way. we don't eat breakfast. we'll have just some regular coffee in themorning. maybe hot tea. warren:with mct and butter.

sometimes i do. dr. pompa:yeah, just a little bit of that stuff. it doesn't break the fast. it's not enough. warren:i use that [23:46] butter stuff too, that you have. dr. pompa:which one? right, the x-factor butter. i eat x-factor butter every day, by the way.

i love it. it's part of my first meal. then i eat around maybe, 2:00, 3:00 in theafternoon as my first meal. like you said, 16 to 18 hours. warren:coffee with maybe some fats. then [24:05] 2:00 to 3:00. dr. pompa:yes. then what i eat at 2:00 to 3:00 is, i typicallyjust have a very light meal. protein, x-factor butter, maybe i'll do somewhey protein.

again, if you have whey water, you can dothat as part of that meal. the amasi would be part of that meal. very, very light meal. sometimes, i'll put some seeds in a littlething and eat it, but a very small meal of fat and protein is basically what i'm eating. matter of fact, on last week's show, we talkedabout the ten things, ideas. any of those ten would be appropriate forthis meal. we did ten ideas, so watch last week's show. then i eat a big dinner.

that's key. you have to eat a massive dinner. again, you can't cut calories by pushing foodaway. you have to cut calories by not being hungry,and that's a hormonal strategy. once you become a very efficient fat burner,which we always teach our clients how to become, then you can go longer periods without food. you don't eat your muscle. matter of fact, growth hormone goes up. you maintain your muscle.

your body feeds from its own fat. one thing i always say, warren. if you want to age slow, control what? warren:insulin and glucose. dr. pompa:you got it. warren:boom. dr. pompa:insulin and glucose. you control that the best, not by eating. you control it best by not eating.

when your body's burning fat, your glucoselevels are perfect. growth hormone, through the roof. it's the best way to anti-age. look at all of the research on anti-aging. there's really only one thing that reallyholds true under pressure. under scientific scrutiny, i should say. that is diminished caloric intake. wait a minute. that doesn't work, because if you just pushfood away, you keep getting less and less

and less and less, and you ruin your metabolism. doesn't work to just say, "i'm not going toeat anymore." doesn't work. you have to be able to eat to full. the key is being very hormone sensitive atthe cell, being a very efficient fat burner, hormonally. now, when you don't eat, you're burning fat. then you have to gorge at night. that's my point, because if you don't, yourbody will think it's starving.

it'll start lowering its metabolism to stayalive. right, then you have to eat less and lessand less and less, and you literally get skinny-fat. you can't cut calories unless you become thisefficient fat burner. doing it through these strategies that we'retalking about is one of the ways to become an efficient fat burner. fixing the cell, the 5 r's, all of that'spart of it. the key is, you become an efficient fat burner. i forget to eat sometimes, because my body'seating. it's eating at night.

it's eating when i'm not eating. it's eating the fat and controlling glucose. then, eat a massive dinner, because if thebody ever thinks it's starving—here's what happens. people think, "this is working, so i'm goingto eat even less." warren:right, i'm going to lose more weight. dr. pompa:nope, doesn't work. you have to eat the massive, gorging dinner,just like the romans did. warren:it's so sad that calorie restriction is the

way to lose weight. i hear that from educated people. i sent them the science, and they still calorierestrict. i don't believe it. they believe that that's in. dr. pompa:there's a reason. warren:all the shows that do it—"the biggest looter"—loser. dr. pompa:looter. warren:looter.

they're looters. they are stealing our lives, because thesepeople get sick. they get hurt. they have to sign waivers. what they do to these people's bodies is justridiculous. dr. pompa:by the way, people would watch that show and say, "yeah, but it works. caloric restriction works." warren:look at their story later, most of the time.

it's sad. dr. pompa:here's the thing. it only works for a shot period of time, right? then you just can't keep the madness going. you're going to break. you're going to break your [27:40]. warren:we should change the show. dr. pompa:you're exercising. you're burning calories, and you're eatingless.

burning calories, eating less. of course your body will start to feed fromitself, but what does it do? it wants to survive, so it's lowering itsmetabolism, lowering its metabolism. you see they get stuck at a certain weight. they don't ever look like us in the end. they get stuck, and then they give in, becausetheir body's instinct of survival says, "eat! eat, eat, eat!" it's not fixed. that's the point.

what happens? then they blow back up, and they ruin theirmetabolisms. warren:and their hormones, and their health. they may have lost weight, but they have abigger chance of a heart attack now than before. dr. pompa:no doubt. look, the key to living longer is eating less. how do you eat less without caloric restriction? you have to fix the hormones. you have to fix the cell.

you have to become— warren:you've got to do step one before step two. the old adage of eating six meals a day. look, does it work? yeah. it's just like caloric restriction. it works because people will maintain theirmuscle and not eat their muscle, so it keeps their metabolism up just enough that theycan lose some weight, but it's not [28:46]. you want to age fast?

eat six meals a day. you're going to age faster. every time you eat, you're firing up the cells'mitochondria. you're making energy. your body has to deal with it. warren:has to go through digestion. dr. pompa:your telomeres are going—that's the biological clock that ages you. you're aging fast.

that's the bottom line. that's the problem. the less you eat, the longer you live. you can't eat less pushing food away. you have to eat less because literally, yourbody knows how to burn fat so efficiently that it burns your fat, maintains your glucoselevels. you don't get hungry, because my body's eating. it's not telling me to eat. when people—and this is key.

when people, and this is most americans, atthe cellular level, they do not have the hormonal ability to become an efficient fat burner. they have to rely on sugar for energy. therefore, your body has two choices. eat its muscle, which it doesn't want to do,because it knows it needs it for fight or flight survival, or give you a craving youcan't resist. which one does it do? eventually, it gives you the craving you can'tresist. all the diet failures you've had?

it's not your fault. it's a hormonal, instinctive, surviving capability,and your body will eventually break down and make you eat the bread or pasta. it's typically not the candy bar. it's the bread or pasta. that is why people fail. warren:it's so funny. people say to me, "warren, i could never stopeating bread. i love bread."

your hormones tell you that you love bread,and your dopamine receptors tell you that you love bread, but really, it's not the bestchoice, obviously. dr. pompa:if you've failed on diets in the past, if you still have carb cravings, bread cravings,all those cravings, your cell is not right. warren:that's a good way. you don't need to do the test. dr. pompa:it's showing that you, hormonally, are not efficient at burning fat at the cellular level. that's a hormone issue.

we are very efficient at hearing our hormones. our cells hear our hormones. hormones like leptin, that tell your brainto burn its fat for energy. hormones like insulin, that tell your cellsto burn fat for energy and not store fat. we're very efficient, and our cells are verysensitive to the hormones. the reputation—the epidemic, i should say—lookat this cute little piece of paper— warren:while you're drawing this, i think we should create a new show. dr. pompa:what's the show?

warren:the show should be, not "the biggest loser." when we do have a tv show, we'll call it—whatdo you call it? "the biggest healthy." i don't know. let's get people healthy and not just thinkabout weight loss. dr. pompa:here's your cell. then, this is inflammation. this is what most americans have. they're taking all sorts of vitamins, minerals—

warren:ignore the westin logo, because that's not part of the cell. dr. pompa:we're allowed to help them. okay, so anyways, this inflammation bluntsthese receptors. i'll put the receptors on both sides. these receptors here, these are the hormonereceptors that need to speak to insulin, leptin, and let me throw another fat hormone out there. i just mentioned three. there's insulin, which we know that if insulin'sout here, elevated, you're going to store

fat. thyroid hormone. if that's not connected to these receptors,because, see, they're blunted, over here, they're going to have trouble getting theirmessage in, you gain weight, and it doesn't matter what you eat. leptin's the hormone that tells your brainto burn fat for energy. if that can't connect to these receptors,you gain weight. it does not matter how much you eat or howless you eat, how much you exercise, you're still going to keep that fat roll in all thewrong places.

how do we do it? we have to get your cell hearing these hormones. when we get your cell sensitive, now you becomean efficient fat burner. now you go, "oh, i didn't eat?" your body is eating. it's eating the fat. warren:i hear you now, dr. pompa: see that? he can hear me.

here's the modern medicine, warren. what do we do today? we give more hormones. let's give more thyroid. let's give more insulin. let's give more estrogen, testosterone, allthese hormones. that works for a little bit. warren:now you're screaming at me. dr. pompa:yeah, now you're shouting at it.

warren:you're hurting my ears. dr. pompa:you're throwing more hormones at it, but what happens? you become more deaf. warren:my daughter wasn't listening to me. dr. pompa:your cells—exactly. your cells become more deaf to the hormones. doesn't hear it. blocked off.

it's not the answer. short term. eating more often, like six times a day? reducing calories? "not going to eat any more. i'm going to make it. i'm going to do it. i'm disciplined now, boy." that'll work for a month, maybe.

warren:80's protestant work ethic. dr. pompa:yeah, if you're really disciplined and work for a month. no, it's here. the cell. the cell's the answer. anyways, ancient healing strategies, fasting,intermittent fasting, and fasting daily, pushes your hormones up, by the way. growth hormone.

testosterone. makes you more hormone sensitive. it's some of the strategies that we use. diet variation is one of our ancient healingstrategies, and please— warren:got an article on that, too. dr. pompa:we're running out of time here, but read the article on diet variation. it's as simple as this. i believe our ancestors, we can learn a lot.

they went times where—diet changed withthe seasons. in the wintertime, they were forced to surviveon meats and fats. they could store it. it was something they were able to store andhunt. warren:fermented foods. dr. pompa:fermented foods. they didn't have all the vegetables and thefruits and the nuts and the seeds that came up in the spring. by springtime, they were so sick of the meatsand the fats and all those other low-carb—

warren:i'm sure they stole some nuts from squirrels. they'd sit in the woods, and they'd watchwhere the squirrel would put the nuts, and then they'd steal the— dr. pompa:yeah, maybe. small amounts, though, small amounts. even the amount of fermented vegetables thatthey had stored up. sickening. warren:did you ever watch "ice age," where they're chasing the squirrel with the one nut?

warren:that's what i would do. i'd go after that— dr. pompa:that one nut, yeah. that one carbohydrate! what happens, then, in the spring? there come the fruits and vegetables. warren:here comes the mushrooms. dr. pompa:diet varying. now, all of a sudden, they went from an extremelylow carbohydrate diet to a higher carbohydrate

diet. warren:[34:44] healthier. dr. pompa:i was going to say. in today's standards, that will still be alow carb diet. they call low carb diets 200 grams of carbohydratesa day a low carb diet. to us, that's a higher carb diet. standards of when you look at studies on lowcarb diets—200 grams of carbohydrates. i don't get that on my high carb days. anyways, they moved to a higher carbohydratediet.

there's massive benefit in this. then they shift back. the shifting diet variation, i believe, works. we do that when we put people into ketosis. another ancient healing strategy. ketosis has been around, again, for thousandsof years. ancient cultures. even in the 1920s, they used it medically,to fix brains. what is ketosis?

dropping your carbs down to at least below50 grams a day. articles on ketosis, two articles that i wrote. what happens is magic. the cell can only use two things for energy,sugar or fat. when it uses fat, fat burns so clean. it's like natural gas burning on your stove. do you see smoke? burn wood, you need a chimney and a fireplace,because there's so much smoke. that's sugar.

sugar's the wood. the fat is the natural gas. clean burning. when we put people into ketosis, the cellmembrane heals. back to making your hormones sensitive. ketosis can do that. it can help fix this membrane, because you'reburning a cleaner energy in the cell. when you do that, what happens is you're notdriving inflammation. warren, if you and i did eat sugar, our cells,they can handle it, and they don't create

the inflammation. our body's designed to burn the smoke, andwe have good chimneys. we have a way to get rid of it. warren:yeah, if we didn't have good chimneys, we would be staining our walls with black soot. we wouldn't be able to breathe, and we wouldhave a bad day. dr. pompa:many people, they don't have good chimneys in the united states. what happens is, they burn glucose and theymake a lot of mess.

then they get a lot more inflammation. if we can get them to burn natural gas, right,fat for energy, shift them over—because when you go into a ketosis state, your bodynow is burning mostly fat for energy, and burning a cleaner fuel. now we're able to decrease the inflammationin the cell long enough to help all our other nutrients and supplements and things we'regiving to actually work. i call it an advanced cellular healing dietfor that reason. we know also, ketones is the byproduct ofbreaking fat down. the brain heals with ketones.

that's why, in the 1920s, they did it forseizures and, really, all types of brain conditions. ketones fix this. you know it takes about two or three weeksto get into that, your cells to where it is this fat burning machine. it takes about two or three weeks to adapt. we call it keto-adaptation. you know when you adapt, because the firstthing that changes is people's memory. warren:[37:44]. dr. pompa:yeah, i can memorize—and i'm about ready

to go into ketosis again, i think, when iget back from this seminar. i did the opposite of most people, becausei like to use it for cycling. warren:most people go into ketosis over the winter. i flipped it. i went into a—still low carb diet. i would call it my regular cellular healingdiet, is what i'm eating currently. then, in about a month, i'm going to go intoketosis again for three months. that variation is amazing. i really came to this discovery, if you will,and started talking about diet variation,

because i had people who aren't able to gointo that ketosis. four months, and they're still not in. i said, "okay, let's go back to the cellularhealing diet. lower carb diet, but much higher than ketosis. maybe 100 grams to 200 grams of carbohydratesa day. that diet is where they started. now, all of a sudden, they go onto that diet,and they lose some weight. it doesn't continue, but they lose weight,and they go, "oh my gosh, i feel better." i say, "great, because we're not going tostay here.

the same thing's going to happen. you're going to get stuck. then we bring them back into ketosis and magichappens. all of a sudden, they get right in, at threeweeks, into ketosis. what happened? diet variation. adaptation occurred. something hormonally happened. warren:a different type of stress.

dr. pompa:something hormonally happened. right. we stressed the body differently. stressed the body differently. something magical happened, to where dietvariation, i believe, is another ancient healing tool that we love to talk about. warren:this is an awesome show. it's created some good questions that youhave. you can always write us on our facebook fanpage.

we have one—revelation health. we have dr. pompa's fan page. we have people that monitor that weekly. also, you can reach out to us by writing onthese articles that we have. the ketogentic diet articles, search that. then, write comments. we monitor that daily. it gives us a message right away and letsus know that you're reaching out to us. we can definitely have a conversation withyou online.

dr. pompa:this would be a great article. warren:cellular healing tv, episode 61. dr. pompa:this would be a good article, here. ancient healing strategies. yeah, very good. warren:alright, appreciate you guys. have a great rest of your weekend or yourstart of your weekend, on a friday. dr. pompa:remember this. this is the key.

listen. be a three percenter. remember, those are the people that changethe world. to do it, you've got to go 180. warren:go 180, guys. dr. pompa:go 180. warren:live opposite. get it done. blessings.

take care. have a great weekend. bye-bye.

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natural treatment for itchy scalp diseases

meredith: hello, everyone, and welcome tocellular healing tv. i’m your host, meredith dykstra, and this is episode number 138. i’vegot dr. pompa here. how are you, dr. pompa? dr. pompa: very well – and just dr. pompatoday, right? meredith: not just, but it is just us, butyou’re definitely – i’m excited to feature you and just to have a conversation today,just us. this is going to be a fun topic today. dr. pompa: yeah. we get a lot of questions.i’ve been trying to do a few other youtube videos answering some of them. i did a three-,four-minute video on candida because i got so many questions on it. i talked about howcandida runs with heavy metals in that video. you’ll see that coming up. i did anotherone on the gut that you’ll see in the future.

you haven’t even seen that one, yet. i thinkdoing some of these shows on some of these more broad questions that i can answer inthree or four minutes is probably a good idea. that’s how i came to this show.meredith:yes. this is a hot topic today. a gentleman wrote in on some of his hair losschallenges. i’m going to read his letter that he wrote to you and merily, and thenwe’re going to delve into this topic. i think it’s going to pique the interest ofa lot of the audience out there. a lot of people have hair loss challenges, and there’sa lot more to it than just the cosmetic issue. before we dive in, i’m going to read hisletter. “hi, dr. pompa and merily. i’m reallyglad to know that you’re christians, and

it’s so cool to see people who have faithin god and are directing people to natural cures. i’m wondering if you would do a showon hair loss. it goes along with cellular health and the endocrine system subject. ibelieve dr. pompa himself touched briefly on his hair in one youtube video in regardsto a time in his life concerning his health.” “i’m a 35-year-old male who has graduatedgrad school. the past eight years have been hard in just about every way, but to add toit, i drank alcohol a lot during this time. i’m experiencing thinning around the crownof the head, and i’m trying to get things right with god and myself. i know that inthe medical field, hair is not something that has a lot of people’s attention, as manyview it as cosmetic. all people seem to know

is that male pattern baldness is caused bydihydrotestosterone or dht. i just hope and pray god can heal my body. thank you for anyinsights.” that was his letter. all right, dr. pompa.take it away. what do you think, and what is dht? i’m excited. i don’t know a lotabout hair loss, so this is – there’s a lot to learn here.dr. pompa:we talked a little bit about, in some past shows, about how the body can formtoxic estrogen for multiple reasons, one of which is toxicity, and how merily had formedthese toxic estrogens. really, we know they lead to cancer and other major hormone problems.we don’t hear a lot about toxic testosterone, but dht is a more potent form of testosteronethat can cause hair loss. there’s something

called 5-alpha reductase that – many peoplemay have heard of these drugs because they’re called 5-alpha reductase inhibitors that theygive for prostate cancer. they do that because dht can also drive prostate inflammation,potentially cancer. this enzyme, these 5-alpha reductase inhibitor,the drug, what it does is it inhibits this production of the dht thereby possibly helpingthe prostate problems, but there’re some other problems. what studies actually showis that, yeah, it actually decreased the frequency of prostate cancer. however, the cancers weremore severe, so i don’t know if that was a good answer.anyways, there are some natural things that we can look at to diminish – to do whatthe 5-alpha reductase inhibitor drugs actually

do. we looked at some of those, and there’sactually one in designs for health, their prostate product called prostate supreme.really, you would say, “i have a hair problem. i don’t have a prostate issue,” but itdoes the same thing. it affects the enzyme and affects the dht. it helps the testosteronenot convert into the more toxic form, if you will, that can drive hair loss.i think there’s a test that we can run. we have run this test for women, and we liketo run this test for men. it’s a 24-hour urine collection, complete hormone. it’sthe most accurate way to assess some of these more toxic hormones and even the toxic metabolitesfrom these hormones. for example, 4-hydroxyestrone is a very toxic metabolite, and 4-hydroxyestronecan cause these free radicals that lead to

breast cancer. my wife had very high levelsof that and even another one called 16-hydroxy. point being that her toxicity drove malfunction,if you will – lowered her methylation and some other problems, and her body wasn’tgetting rid of these toxic forms, and therefore, they were building up, and leading to hormoneproblems. we discovered that by that test, this 24-hour urine. you can actually get thetest off our website under discount labs, under services. look. you get the test, butyou need a coach to read it. that’s why we train doctors in these tests like this.it is another way to look at even, like i said, dht, 5-alpha reductase, some of theseother anabolic pathways. go ahead. meredith: are you commonly seeing methylationas being an issue connected to hair loss?

dr. pompa:yeah. methylation can allow someof these more toxic hormones to build up. methylation really is involved in detox. methylationinvolves in protecting the dna. meredith:sorry. it’s cut out a little bit.i did not hear the last little bit of what you said.dr. pompa: methylation gets rid of toxins, toxic hormones, but it also protects the dna.i want to give some other reasons why hair loss can be an issue that i jotted down, thati’ve ran into over the years, honestly, one of which is a gene. we can turn on certaingenes, and the drop in methylation can allow certain susceptibilities, even male patternbaldness, etcetera, to be turned on, which leads me, actually, to something that justhappened recently to one of my patients.

stressful events can drive certain types ofhair loss for multiple reasons, by the way. it can trigger certain genes, stressful events.it can trigger autoimmune, which can drive your body to attack the hair follicle andcause hair loss. it can drive other types of autoimmune, hypothyroid, which we’llget to. stressful events are known to – all of a sudden, people have hair falling outin clumps, i mean literally. what are stressful events? it could be toxicin nature, so the body releases a lot of toxins, or you get a lot of toxic exposure, or you’renot getting rid of toxins. we see that sometimes happen to people who – we need to slow thedetox down. we also get it in people who need to detox. we also see it in pregnancy, afterpregnancy. it’s a stressful event. they’d

categorize that as the stressful event thatcan trigger hair loss. there’s a condition known as telagon – it’s t-e-l-a-g-o-n.i actually wrote it down because my dyslexia, i knew i wouldn’t pronounce it correctly.telagon effluvinna or something to – e-f-f-l-u-v-i-n – and i can’t even read my own writing.it’s a condition that stressful events can cause, and the hair falls out, but that’smore rare. most of the time, it just triggers the othertypes of autoimmune. even after surgery, it can trigger those types of events. stressfulevents is one thing that i just saw recently with somebody. i guess the question wouldthat, “what do you do?” if it’s an emotional or a physical stressful event, just some good,solid nutrition plays a big role. adrenal

supplements like ga, seriphos, calm; thoseare three that we have that actually can make a big difference in helping the body adaptto stress, and therefore, the body will come around on its own.then also, just like i said, some good nutrition. there’s the spectra, which is a naturalmultivitamin. we did the energybits. that helped one of my patients with their hair.it’s an algae, spirulina, that’s loaded with nutrition. because of it, it made a massivedifference in this woman’s hair, and it started growing back. that’s a big deal.again, that has a lot of things in it. we know biotin deficiencies can also cause theloss of hair, other b vitamins, too. b vitamins play an important role. you had a question.meredith:yeah. i’d like to go back to the

nature versus nurture conversation on thisbecause as we know, the genes that we have, especially with male pattern baldness, don’tnecessarily have to be triggered. i’d like you to talk a little bit more about your specialty,too, toxicity and how that can trigger, maybe, the male pattern baldness gene, and then whatto do about that with detox. dr. pompa:the gentleman in the letter actuallyraised – said i had said my story, which is true. when i was sick and i still didn’treally know what was wrong, there was just hair through my drain all the time, and irealized i was losing my hair. i wasn’t even healing the same. i recall that, as well.my hair definitely changed rapidly. mercury is known actually to – obviously, it couldtrigger genes. so can any heavy metal or toxin,

neurotoxin, and turn on certain genes.i think, in my case, it was more of the fact that my body just became so depleted at thecellular level that – i’m sure it was my deficiencies that were causing my hairto fall out. my hair did become thin and brittle. my thyroid was affected, which is anothercause for thinning hair, especially, but it also – you lose the hair. my thyroid andadrenals were just not functioning normal at all. something i always say is i addressedmy thyroid and my adrenals for a long time, and it really never worked. my body temperaturewas low. my skin was not the same. my hair was obviously thinner, drier, and more brittle.it was when i got my heavy metals down to a certain point that my thyroid started tocome back. mercury binds to the same receptors

as thyroid hormone. it’s a selenium-typeof receptor so it attracts these types of heavy metals. the thyroid is known as thecanary in the coalmine, meaning it’s very sensitive to heavy metals. it’s very sensitiveto that halogen type of chemicals like fluoride, chlorine, and those types of things. iodinebinds to those same exact receptors, so we need iodine to make thyroid hormone, so thosechemicals interfere with that process. many people are drinking fluorinated water,chlorinated water. bromine’s another one. the point is that that exposure to those chemicalsreally affect thyroid just like heavy metals, which one of the first signs you can startto see your hair thinning, and start to lose it when it gets more severe.meredith:wow. so many causes it seems like

for hair loss that – these triggers in ourenvironment, the stresses, the chemical, the physical, and the emotional that’ll triggerthat gene; then it gets turned on. dr. pompa:i think that it can – male patternbaldness, obviously there’s a heredity there. we know that there’s genes involved. genesget turned on, so stressful events will turn it on. again, we know that if we change thestressful events, the body can turn it around. however, certain genes, once they get turnedon, it’s very difficult to turn them off. meredith:mm-hmm. do you think it’s alwayspossible to avoid turning it on if you maintain a healthy lifestyle even if you’re geneticallysusceptible to it? dr. pompa:remember, genes get turned on evenin the generation before or the generation

before. remember, epigenetics affects fourgenerations.â you could live this perfect life. the duke university study, i think,was really evident of that. they exposed two identical twin groups of mice, identical twins,same dna. they fed them the same, exercised them the same, did everything the same. theyexposed one group, however, to a chemical, bpa, which we get in make-up. we get plastic,we’re exposed to bpa. even teeth sealants and fillings – bpa is everywhere.they exposed the mice to an equivalent level, they felt in the study, what humans get exposedto today, especially the younger generations. it triggered a gene called the agouti gene.guess what happened? the mice hair became dry, turned yellow, became very, very unhealthy.i’m sure that nobody would have liked hair

like this. they became obese, and they becamemore susceptible to heart disease and other diseases. triggering that gene was one thingto see in that generation, but what happened is the next generation they didn’t exposeto the chemical. they were born with the gene triggered. they had the yellow coat, the yellow,dry coat. they became obese as little, teenage mice. they were fed the exact same diet, andyet they still had that gene turned on. now, the good news is when we can take thestressors away, we can give methylation groups, and do all these things, and fixing the cellmembranes, the body can turn off the gene. in that study, they did turn it off so thenext generation then was born good. meredith:it was one more generation, you said?how long did it take to turn it –

dr. pompa:no, no. in those mice, they actuallyturned it off, and they did become healthy. then the next generation was born with itturned off. meredith:wow. now, do you think that thatwould be transferable to the human model as far as the next generation? if one generationhad it terribly, passed it on to the next generation, that current generation was ableto control it and turn it off. do you think that it would pass onto the next generation?how do you think that works with humans? dr. pompa:absolutely. one of the things that– people always say, “okay. i’m detoxing.” it’s like, “okay. great. you’re detoxing.”however, as we know, there’s much more to it than that. we forget about the cellularhealing component. my 5 rs is really a roadmap

that years ago i started teaching doctorson how to fix a cell. if you actually look at the 5 rs, it’s really mostly about turningoff those – that epigenetics in the cell. r number 1is removing the stressors, removingthe sources. that plays into epigenetics. r number 2 is regenerating the cell membrane.if you remember our interview with dr. bruce lipton, who wrote the book, biology of belief,he showed just our thoughts will change that epigenetic. thoughts alone can change geneticsand the epigenome. so do toxins. his point was, though, in his book – if you’ve read,some of you. it’s a great book. you should read it, biology of belief – that fixingthe cell membrane is really the key to fixing and changing the genome.in the cell membrane lies the intelligence.

in the cell membrane are the receptors, imds,integral membrane proteins – imps, integral membrane proteins. i think we’re talkingnuclear weapons when i said imds – imps, integral membrane proteins. these are basicallya.k.a hormone receptors. they’re receptors that communicate with the outside of the cell,bring information inside the cell. he really says that’s where the intelligence reallylies. when the membrane is inflamed, which so manyamericans is, then that information in epigenetics – bad genes get turned on. we know thatif we can fix the membrane, fix the receptors, we can change the epigenetics. a lot of hisresearch and now, many others, have shown this. r number 2 is regenerating the cellmembrane, very, very important for epigenetics.

r number 3 is restoring cellular energy. again,cellular energy runs parallel to many things like restoring glutathione, inflammation,which plays a role in epigenetics. r number 4 is reducing inflammation. again, inflammationis what’s driving a lot of the disruption for the epigenetics. r 5 is reestablishingmethylation, which i just told you the methylation, these methyl groups, which so many peopleare depleted in today because of emotional stress, physical stress, and chemical stress– depletes these methyl groups. now, it leaves your dna more vulnerable.in the duke study, they gave these mice an abundance of methyl groups, and they turnedoff the gene. when you put the 5 rs together, you can change the epigenetics, and then wecan turn off autoimmune if that’s what’s

causing the hair loss. we can turn off a genethat was turned on if that’s what’s causing the hair loss. you see, we can change thethyroid condition because remember, thyroid conditions get turned on just like diabetes,just like other things. yes, we need to remove the stressors. that’s part of the detox.we also have to turn off that gene. if you remember the article that i wrote,the autoimmune answer, i said a gene gets turned on in autoimmune. however, there isa stressor – so three legs. think of the analogy of a three-legged stool. all threelegs have to be there for it to stand up. all three legs have to be there for it tocause an autoimmune. all three legs have to be there to have a solution for it. a genegets turned on in autoimmune. in this case,

it could be one that’s related to hair loss.the stressors that turn it on have to be removed so we can turn the gene off.then the gut plays a significant role, we know, in certain bacteria being needed toeven make cells to turn off the immune system. anyways, three-legged stool applies here,as well. you had a question. meredith:yeah. i think that three-legged stoolillustration for autoimmune, as you’ve said in the past, too, applies to so many differentdiseases because those three components play into how a disease arises. then you have astool, as you’ve kind of created for how to fix it, as well. do you want to kind ofgo over that a little bit? dr. pompa:yup. yeah. look, the 5 rs playsinto how we turn off the genes. think about

the 5 rs playing into that leg of the stool.true cellular detox is how we get the toxins out. look. we say this again and again. it’sworth saying. you won’t get well until you fix the cell, but you won’t get well untilyou actually detox the cell. all these downstream detox things, whether it’s this cleanse,that cleanse, juice cleanse, liver cleanse, you name it, colon cleanse, they really don’tget to the cell. we have to get the cell doing what it does.that’s the toxins that are affecting that genome. we have to remove the stressors. ifyou don’t remove the stressors that turned on the gene, you’re never going to turnthe gene off, so very, very important. r number 1 is removing the sources. whether it’sphysical, emotional, or chemical, we like

to talk about all of them on this show.then the last one is the gut. that’s more of where our ancient healing strategies apply.that’s where a lot of the fasting, intermittent fasting, moving people in and out of ketosis,diet variation, changing their diet, that’s where a lot of those strategies play into.fixing the gut isn’t as simple as just giving probiotics, as people want it to be, but oftentimes,that actually causes dysbiosis. again, fixing the gut – all of these things play intoone another. how do you fix the gut without going upstream to the toxins, getting ridof the toxins that are destroying the gut? people have root canals, these things, andsilver amalgam fillings, putting toxins down into the gut day in, day out. you’re creatingdysbiosis. your stress, your thoughts, according

to bruce lipton – so all of these thingsplay in. it really is a real answer, but again, there’s complexities here. it’s a littledifferent for everybody. however, it is the real answer, but nobody wants to hear it.everyone wants that one thing. it’s never the one thing.meredith:yeah. i love your multi-therapeutic approach, dr. pompa, because it’s not asimple answer, but it’s a real answer. it’s funny. your store here where i work, two peoplecall in, and they ask for – “i have hair loss. what’s a good supplement for this?”a woman texted me today, like, “oh, my stomach is feeling off. i need a supplement to easemy stomach.” it’s never that simple, unfortunately. so many people either want a pill or theywant a supplement, but the multi-therapeutic

approach is truly the answer, and it’s multifaceted.it’s time, and resources, and strategy, but if people want real results, then they’regoing to have to commit. dr. pompa:yup. yeah, it’s true. i thinkpeople come out of that mindset because of the way medicine has been over the years.it’s, “take a drug for a symptom. take this for that. take this for a headache. takethis for a stomachache. take this.” we are driven with that philosophy from the timewe’re children. as adults, when the bottom starts falling out, we want to reach for thatone thing. when you look at how illness really is createdor – not just illness but not feeling well – where it starts, it’s very complicated.it starts with a lot of different stressors

that we call perfect storm, turn on a lotof bad genes, create a lot of cellular inflammation, dysfunction, and it’s been going on foryears. disease starts years before the symptom starts.now, people don’t believe that. they don’t want to hear that, but that’s the truth.before you ever express a symptom of hair loss, the problem started years before. thyroidconditions start years before the blood work comes out. even before your symptoms start,the dysfunction starts. health is the same way. it’s years, not months. it’s notone thing. it’s reversing, if you will, everything that you’ve done wrong, and thatis a multi-therapeutic approach. it really is. you have to be taught, right?i love to say this. i can say this. the reason

why we – i can say “we” as a group ofdoctors around the country who have been trained – and i’ve been training in a multi-therapeuticapproach, cellular healing, cellular detox, the ancient strategies, everything that wetalk and love. look. it is a coaching situation that – why we see the results we’re seeing.people want to be treated, but i’m telling you once you hit a certain thing of chronicdisease, you don’t want to be treated. you want to be taught a process. you want to betaught cellular healing. you want to be taught how to turn off epigenetics. you want to betaught how to detox a cell. that’s the key. although i am a physician, you don’t needone. you need a coach. i repeat that many, many times to people in a day because youdo. doctors today are not teaching. doctor

means teacher in latin, but we’re treating.we’re giving people things. if it took years for you to become sick or years to becomenot well, you need to learn the process to get your life back. that’s what doctorstoday need to do. that’s the difference. you hear me tell our doctors that all thetime. “you coach. you teach people these processes.” nobody’s doing that today.if someone wants to learn, they will get well, and i believe that.meredith:yeah. it’s a powerful message. it can be a tough pill to swallow, so to speak,for some people who want a simple answer, but it’s also – it’s helpful, too, becausereal results are able to be achieved, and people’s lives transform. that’s reallythe magic of implementing all of these different

strategies while working with a trained coachbecause you can really get your life back and get better health than you ever dreamedof. dr. pompa:yup. absolutely. i saw this shadowmove out here – my windows here. the other day, a mother and its two baby moose walkedby here. i don’t even know if you can see this, but there’s not much room betweenthat wall – do you see that wall? – and the window.meredith:mm-hmm. dr. pompa:there’s a path that goes throughthere, right through there. can you believe that? you don’t want to mess with a mooseand her babies. i can tell you that. my dogs are going berserk. i wish it would have beenduring one of these shows so we could have

showed that.meredith:that would have been fun. a little moose, hey, that’s the fun of living inutah. you’re in a good spot out there. dr. pompa:so true. let me give a couple otherreasons for hair loss that, maybe, people didn’t think about. iron deficiency cancause it, so anemia, iron deficiency anemia, can be a cause. again, the one that took theenergybits, that really clean spirulina, that could have been the b vitamins. it could havebeen some iron. it could have been many different things. that’s another one that people don’tthink about. looking at your serum ferritin levels – ferritin being too high can createoxidation. being too low can lead to other problems, hair loss being one of them. that’sanother.

i don’t even know, did we finish the thyroidconversation in the sense that it really does lead to multiple different problems? here’sthe thing that most people have to understand: so many thyroid conditions are autoimmune.doctors don’t typically even run antibodies because the treatment is the same whetheryou’re autoimmune or not. my gosh, it shouldn’t be. however, the antibodies, even if they’renegative, you can be in an autoimmune state, and again, it could take years before theantibodies start to actually rise. autoimmune, again, read the answer, autoimmune answer,the article, autoimmune answer because most often, that’s the key.i’m always asked, “can these thyroid conditions be reversed?” absolutely. get rid of thecause; the body reverses them. the doctor

doesn’t. the body does. when you get ridof the causes through a multi-therapeutic approach, the body can do amazing things.turn that gene off, and the body can fix it. there’s no doubt about that. pcos â€“â  meredith:oh. this kind of tied in a littlebit, too, with the thyroid. i just wanted – if you could talk a little bit about genderdifferences with hair loss, as well. i know it seems to be a little more common for womento be hypothyroid and experience hair loss as a symptom of that. if you could kind ofspeak to that and if treatment is different at all for men and women with the hair lossissue. dr. pompa:the male pattern baldness, obviously,that’s more of a male thing. the dht we

would think of as just a male thing, the moretoxic, potent testosterone, but that can happen in women, as well. matter of fact, a conditionin women that we see hair loss is pcos, polycystic ovarian syndrome. by the way, what is that?women run too high of testosterone levels. that’s one of the tests. we look at testosterone.again, that 24-hour urine test is a good test to look at – as well as too high dhea. dheaconverts into testosterone – and as well as dht. i have seen all of those with polycysticovarian syndrome. again, for males or females, it would be the same. we have to fix the hormonecascade, and typically, that’s toxins in nature. obviously, methylation plays a rolethere, as well. that’s – go ahead. meredith:is that 24-hour urine test the besttest for methylation, as well?

dr. pompa:yeah. i think it is. there’s somethingthat is known as the methylation priority principle that dr. vinitsky – actually coinedthe term, and i think it’s very appropriate. we see it in practice all the time. methylationis so important and has so many functions, protecting our dna. matter of fact, you needmethylation groups to turn on dna and turn it off. it acts like a switch.to adapt to stress, you need it to turn on cortisol to adapt to stress, turn on adrenalinto adapt to stress. it turns on our stress response, but methylation also turns it off.a lot of people have chronic anxiety. a lot of people who are left in panic attacks, they’reso methyl depleted from other stressors that they can’t turn off the stress response.that’s a sign that they’re severely methyl

depleted. think about this. the methylationpriority principle means that the number one priority for a human is to adapt to stress.therefore, it will steal methyl groups from any other jobs that it would do to adapt tostress. therefore, if you’re chemically, physically,or emotionally stressed, it’s stealing methyl groups from your dna. it’s stealing methylgroups from getting rid of toxic hormones. because people are emotionally stressed, physicallystressed, chemically stressed, they become very methyl depleted, and therefore now, we’releaving our dna vulnerable. we’re leaving our hormones to be more vulnerable, buildingup these toxic hormones. yeah. we see that often.in that test, we can look at methylation and

how it’s affecting hormones. because it’sdownstream, then we’re able to see that, “wow! the methylation’s depleted herebecause it’s being used up there.” it’s a neat way to assess methylation. of course,we always get asked about the mthfr gene, which is a snp in a gene that can possiblylead you more predisposed to having methylation problems because you don’t process regularfolate, and therefore, it can – folate is part of this methylation circle, if you will.it can leave you more methyl depleted. we can look at certain genetics. i think wethought it was very simple in the beginning. it’s a little more complicated. they bodyhas ways to compensate, but we can still look at these genes, and say, “some people definitely,genetically, have susceptibilities to that.”

therefore, they end up with more methyl depletion,and they can end up with other conditions, diseases because of that methyl depletion.meredith:yeah. a lot of your clients need methylation support. it does seem pretty commonjust from what i’ve seen a lot, too, that so many of us today are methyl depleted. supportingmethylation is a good idea for a lot of people. dr. pompa:yeah, it is. mors is a great productthat’s sold on the revelation health website because it uses active forms. some of thesemethyl depleted people, some of these genetics snp type of people, they’re not able totake regular folate, so they need the active from called methyltetrahydrofolate. we wantto use these more active forms. there’s even different forms of b12. there’sa hydroxocobalamin; there’s a methylcobalamin;

there’s a cyanocobalamin. some people havedifferent places where they’re filed up, so to speak. even toxins can interfere. givingthem one type of b12 will help one person; this type may help another. i like to usedifferent forms and even rotate different forms because of that. i don’t like justto rely just on one form oftentimes; i like to rely on different forms just because peoplecan have different problems in different areas of those conversions. give people those certainforms that they need, they really light up. it really makes a difference for them.meredith:yeah. now, i know you’re not a huge fan of using exogenous or supplementalhormones, but do you think as a crutch in a situation like for hair loss or hormoneimbalance that possibly some testosterone

would be helpful in the short term?dr. pompa:yeah. if you look at one of those 24-hour hormone tests and you have a practitionerwho’s really good at looking at that, that’s the way to go. at least then you can see thewhole hormone cascade, the whole hormone pathway, and you can make much safer assessments. somepeople need crutches whether it’s thyroid hormone, estrogen, progesterone, whateverit is, and that’s the way to do it, the safe way to do it.here’s why: oftentimes, we see people – when we look at that test, we see people takinghormones, saying, “i feel better.” they do whether it’s this type of – one estrogenor progesterone. who knows what it is? “i’m feeling better.” however, when we’re lookingat their test and all of it, or a portion

of it, i should say, is spilling off intothese toxic estrogen metabolites, that really can cause problems and lead to cancer. youcould feel better developing cancer. it happens all the time. it does.whether it’s bioidentical or not, if your body can’t get rid of these toxic estrogenmetabolites, that’s a problem. the safe way to use those crutches is to look at atest. then you can see if you’re making these more toxic forms of hormones or theirmetabolites. meredith:yeah. very, very important point.â gettingtested in that area is very key and working with a trained practitioner who knows howto look at that, and read it, and use those hormones very strategically.dr. pompa:yeah. estrogen, progesterone, and

those levels, that plays into so many differentother hormone pathways, and it plays into hair loss, as well. we talked about pcos asbeing somewhere where we see hair loss. again, estrogen and progesterone can play into evenforming more testosterone and toxic testosterone, so it really – one hormone affects the other.the test is a good idea, no doubt about it. meredith:yeah.dr. pompa:i’m sure some of our viewers have heard of alopecia, which again, autoimmunein nature. the body can literally start to attack the hair follicle. again, read theautoimmune answer. there’s not a simple answer here. any type of autoimmune, a goodtest is to have your practitioner, doctor, run an ana test. ana tests are very commonfor just general autoimmune.

lupus is another autoimmune where we see alot of hair loss. i mentioned alopecia. i mentioned lupus. i mentioned thyroid, autoimmune.look at those areas, as well. again, we look to the answer for that three-legged stool,the answer of autoimmune. meredith:what does ana stand for?dr. pompa:oh, gosh – antinucleus antibodies, something like that. yeah, something likethat. meredith:i wasn’t as familiar with thattest, but ana test for autoimmune. okay. i know you’ve said before that autoimmunetesting is in the stone age in a lot of ways, too. they still haven’t developed a lotof really accurate tests because there’s so many different autoimmune problems andconditions.

dr. pompa:that’s exactly right. there’sa lot. we really haven’t caught up. so many people have autoimmune and just don’t knowit. it’s because the testing is in the stone age. an ana test is a general test that youcan just start with, but again, it’s – it really is. it takes years being autoimmunebefore these tests actually show a positive. that’s the problem.meredith:i think you’ve said, too – you’ve said that so many people with major chronicconditions and unexplainable symptoms, it’s very, very likely that there is an autoimmunechallenge going on. it’s safe to assume that it’s probably autoimmune.dr. pompa:mm-hmm – especially when you have large amounts of hair – losing hair veryrapidly. most likely, i would say, that’s

true. mild hair loss could be just nutritionaldeficiencies being driven by toxicity like my case, or it could be nutritional deficienciesjust from other types of stressors. who knows? autoimmune, i would say, and then hormonal.so many things, of course, affect the hormones. multiple stressors affects the hormones.those are the majors. here’s one that a lot of people don’t realize. again, i thinkof these things because i’ve actually had these cases. just using too much crappy hairproduct – i use the word crappy. i should use the word toxic.meredith:toxic. dr. pompa:toxic hair product. they literallyare constantly using these crappy products whether it’s hair dyes, their product thatthey’re using daily, day in, day out. these

toxins break down hair, and they get intothe follicle, and it can break down that. it can drive hair loss. of course, it candrive different types of dermatitis of the skin, which that can lead to hair loss, dermatitises,different things like that. change your hair product.meredith:yeah. in all of those external toxic products, not only are they affecting us atthe external level, but they’re getting absorbed, too. then they’re creating theinternal cellular toxicity, so it’s kind of a double whammy there.dr. pompa:yeah, no doubt. no doubt about it. you know, there’s a few places we can lookat somebody for whether they’re healthy or not, and the hair is one of them. i believethe eyes are the other. we can look at people’s

eyes; we can look at people’s hair and justknow. it’s the thing that you don’t know you’re looking at that go, “ooh, thatperson’s sick.” i would say a third is the skin. you look at someone’s skin, hair,eyes, and that’s just kind of what our brain does and assesses people.i think that’s one of the reasons why people really pay attention to their hair. it’sa big deal. listen. i’ve had many, many really sick people, very sick, and their numberone concern is their hair. i would lean towards the women on that, no doubt about it, butthere’s exceptions. i’m not saying that’s wrong.meredith:no. dr. pompa:it’s self-esteem. it’s how wefeel about ourselves. it’s a horrible thing.

hair is a big deal. it’s not just vanityis my point, i guess. it’s really not. it is an assessment of how we are and how peopleperceive us. the hair is a really important thing. i never ever get on my patient forsaying – “oh, my gosh. if you’re worried about your hair? look at this.” no. i wouldnever say that because how we present ourselves is – that means a lot to everybody.meredith:yeah. they’re all expressions of our inner cellular health. as you said, too,it’s very primal how we assess others, too, with these external traits to know how they’rehealthy on the inside, too. our ancestors didn’t have all of these tests, and to lookat blood work, and to look at hormones, and to know whether things were in the right balance,but they looked at each other, and energetically

could assess how healthy someone was. i thinkthat god put those instincts in us for a reason just as far as creation goes.dr. pompa:i forgot one. i forgot weston price’s favorite, the teeth. look at somebody’steeth, and you can see health. when you see somebody’s teeth that are rotting and – again,that’s why people really care about their teeth because it really is another one ofthose signs that you’re healthy or not. what did we say? we said hair; we said eyes;we said teeth; and we said skin. meredith:skin.dr. pompa:all right here. yeah. it is. those are all reflections of inner health. it reallyis. when i was sick, my gosh. obviously, my sickness started in my teeth, but they wererapidly getting worse. i lost the gums. my

gum recession, dr. [jerry] fixed all that.i had all these things up there. it was horrible the amount of recession that i had, and itwas just getting more and more rampant. it was just getting worse and worse.obviously, my eyes were constantly red. my skin had this gray look. i looked back inpictures, and it was just remarkable to me. it was like i could just see – and of coursei already talked about my hair. all of those areas were affected on me. again, i didn’tknow it because it kind of creeps up on you. it’s when i could look back in picturesand go, “oh, my gosh! i looked worse even though i was much younger than i am now, buti definitely looked worse.” meredith:mm-hmm. yeah. it’s okay to focuson those cosmetic things sometimes, as we

said, because there is a deeper meaning behindall of it. that’s why this was such a great question to write in. you said, “well, let’sdo this show on it.” we get a lot of great questions, but i think this is such a topicin particular that affects a lot of people, and needs a multi-therapeutic approach, andit is more than just cosmetic. there’s a much deeper underlying issue here. great topicand great question. i know we talked a lot about the causes, sojust to review a little bit, some of the supports you wanted to bring in to kind of help treathair loss is obviously the multi-therapeutic approach, looking at methylation, and possiblyusing the genova 24-hour hormone test to look at that; focusing on proper nutrition, sothe cellular healing diet, the cyclical ketogenic

diet, bringing in a lot of those differentnutritional tools and therapies that you suggest. adrenal support, possibly then just briningin targeted supplementation, as well, like the algae, the b vitamins, methylation donorproducts like mors. anything else you want to add?dr. pompa:yeah. those were all just kind of brought up along the way. you did a good jobrecording them there. yeah. all of those things are really, really good. the spectra is agreat just general nutrient. again, the energybites, just general, great, general nutrients. ithink your b vitamins – you had mentioned them, right? – are very, very important.adding some extra biotin has worked for people, but again, just a general b complex can behelpful for certain people.

if you don’t have the deficiency, it won’thelp you. it won’t hurt you. it’s a water-soluble vitamin, but it plays a role. getting in thesun, i think, would be one thing more i would add to that. it has an effect on so many differentpathways. here’s one more. you kind of said it, but i’ll repeat it in a different way.many people today still are not getting enough quality fats in their diet. cholesterol isnot something to be feared. cholesterol is at the top of the hormone chain. cholesterolplays into hair. it plays into the skin, the collagen, the cell membrane. getting thesetypes of things in is really important. i’m doing a lot of study right now on fishoil and how many people, again, just are taking just fish oil, and they’re taking it forever,on, and on, and on. they’re staying away

from things like butter that have arachidonicacid that we used to think just drove inflammation. now we know that it balances it. if you’retaking fish oil, that can lead to thin skin, thin hair. you may want to add butter. again,i would say take your fish oil more randomly. be careful. eat more fish, some clean fishlike sardines. we know that they have an incredible – but in the fish, you’re getting allof these other antioxidants. you’re getting all these other fats that help balance thatout. again, just a caution there. in the list ofthings – let me just see one thing. we have a minute here, but let me see if i can findthis. on my desktop right now, i have – oh, gosh. you should see all these studies. now,if i pull this one out, it will be a bloody

miracle. let’s see here.meredith:you do your research, dr. pompa. that’s for sure.dr. pompa:i love it. that’s not it. i’ll have every one of these pulled up here.meredith:forty different tabs open. dr. pompa:yeah, exactly. remarkable how manyi have. you know what’s happening right now is i’m going through this thing of like,“oh, my god! i have all this work to do!” meredith:as you look, too, i just wanted tomention, too, i love your suggestion, dr. pompa, as far as the vitamin d, going out,getting the sunlight, and the fish oils, as well. if you do need to supplement vitamind or supplement fish oil instead of eating fish, to give it sporadically. instead ofgoing out and getting regular sunshine, taking

a high dose of vitamin d sporadically, liketaking the vitamin d3 supplement that you like, taking a large dose like five or tenat a time, like you would have gone out and just gotten a big dose of natural sunlight.i think that’s such a great idea – or taking fish oil at a higher dose randomlyas if you would have eaten fish versus just taking it daily at the same amount. i thinkthat that’s such a brilliant approach. dr. pompa:yeah, exactly. oh, i might havefound it. it prevents that overdose. let’s see if we can –meredith:yup. you got it? dr. pompa:here you go. these are signs ofa dha deficiency. that means fish oil deficiency – numbness and tingling, weak, pain, poorcognitive function, blurred vision, poor immunity,

poor growth, inflammation. here’s the symptomsof an arachidonic acid deficiency. that means butter, organ meats –meredith:i just ate grass-fed heart today for lunch. it was really good.dr. pompa:oh, man, loaded with this good stuff, right?â listen, here’s the deficient – firstthing, hair loss. you may need more butter. dandruff, dry, scaly, itchy skin – you seeit’s hair and skin. reproductive difficulties, gastrointestinal disturbance, food intolerances– wow. kidney disease, inability to maintain weight – so people need to gain weight.poor immunity, as well, and poor growth, inflammation – so interesting, right? those are the peoplethat start to take in too much fish oil actually start to get skin and hair problems.meredith:yeah. wow.

dr. pompa:you need some butter. you need someorgan meat. you need some egg yolks. yeah. meredith:for those who are dairy-sensitive– what if you can’t have butter? what would be another good source of arachidonicacid? dr. pompa:yeah. like i said, the organ meatsare good. meredith:organ meats and egg yolk, those aregood. okay. dr. pompa:yeah. organ meats and egg yolksare great sources, and of course, you’re getting some just in general meat, just some,obviously – meredith:red meat.dr. pompa:exactly. yeah. meredith:grass-fed, organic, local, ideally.dr. pompa:yup. there you go. we gave some

tests to run. we gave some immediate solutions.we gave some, obviously, some ideas of causations. i hope that helps. i always say that. i hopethat helps. this is an important topic, and who knows? it may be one of the most sharedtopics that we’ve done for that reason. meredith:you never know. yeah. if you’rewatching, continue to send in those topics, and we’ll bring more shows like this toyou. if you like it, give us feedback. let us know if you like little q&as with dr. pompabecause this is questions that you guys have. we want to get this information to you, andcellular healing tv is a wonderful vehicle that we’re blessed to be able to do that.thank you, dr. pompa. awesome show. great information, as always. so grateful for youand for bringing this message to the world.

dr. pompa:yup. love it. can’t wait to doanother one. we’ll see you on the next show. meredith:awesome. thanks, everybody. havea great weekend, and we’ll see you next time.dr. pompa:yup.

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natural treatment for dry skin diseases

- [announcer] this ucsd-tvprogram is presented by university of california television. like what you learn? visit our website, or followus on facebook and twitter to keep up with the latest programs. (classical music) - [narrator] we are the paradoxical ape, bipedal, naked, large-brained, long the master of fire,tools and language,

but still trying to understand ourselves. aware that death is inevitable, yet filled with optimism. we grow up slowly. we hand down knowledge. we empathize and deceive. we shape the future from our shared understanding of the past. carta brings together expertsfrom diverse disciplines

to exchange insights on who we are and how we got here. an exploration made possible by the generosity of humans like you. (mellow piano music) - i'd like to begin by acknowledging and appreciating the talk that i just heard, whichreally emphasized this, that animals and humanscan get the same diseases

and yet physicians and veterinarians rarely consult with one another, and that human and non-humananimal commonalities can be used to diagnose, threat, and heal patients of all species. and i also would like to acknowledge that this comes as barbara pointed out from a long lineagethat goes back to oslo, and one of those steps along the way

was one of our own here, kurt benirschke, unfortunately couldn't behere because of an illness, the founding director of creszs and professor of pathology here who really emphasized one medicine. i'd like to flip the coin around, and science has alwaystwo sides to every coin, and say, are therehuman-specific diseases? what we've been hearingabout is the evolutionary

biology and diseases of alarge variety of animals, mostly warm-blooded socialanimals, vertebrates, and you can see an entire lineage here. let's zoom in on thegroup that we belong to, primates, and zoom in further, and among these primateswe have new-world monkeys, old-world monkeys, gibbons,various so-called great apes, and then us, humans. if we zoom in further here,

we can see that we shared common ancestors with orangutans, gorillas,chimpanzees, bonobos just a very short timeago in evolutionary time. and here's another way to look at it. in millions of years before present, there's certainly somediscussion about the time frame, but the very importantpoint to make here is that while we classified allthese species as great apes, the main difference betweenchimpanzees and bonobos

is less than 1% of theiramino acid sequence level. in fact, we are closer tobonobos and chimpanzees than they are to gorillas. in fact, we are closer to chimpanzees than mice and rats are to each other. so really, the classificationshould be like this, we are hominids, andthen among the hominids, the lineage is leadingto us, the hominins. so if you have a species that's 99%

identical to us at the protein level, how could you possibly have anything that's different between them? and in fact, when i firstgot into this field, i found out at the veterinarians that the primates center i went to were using harrison's textbook of internal medicine, same textbook i'd used. so that made sense.

but if you wanna say there's such a thing as a human-specific disease, it's got to be very common in humans, rarely reported inclosely-related species, now this is very important, i'm zooming in on thisclip, not about things that happened at distantportions of evolution, even in captivity and could notbe experimentally reproduced in such species, and i should warn you,

i'm gonna talk about a fewreally horrible experiments that were done a long time ago that will never be done again. so there's a caveat:who do you compare with? in my opinion, reliableinformation is limited to data on a few thousandgreat apes in captivity which were cared for atnih-funded facilities, with full veterinary care,probably better medical care than most americans get,and full necropsies.

sp this is a reasonable datasaid to compare with humans. i think comparing with wild chimpanzees and self-domesticatedhumans isn't that useful in this question thatwe are trying to ask. so when i went to yerkes primate center and other centers and asked, and said, "what's the commonest cause of death "in captive adult chimpanzees?" and they said, "heart disease,

"heart attacks, heart failures." so i said, "oh, it's the same thing." but then my wife, nissivarki, who's a pathologist, went to see what is going on. she came back and said, "you fool, it's mostlya different disease!" and so we got together withvarious experts across, including kurt, and wrotethis article that says heart disease is commonin humans and chimpanzees,

but is mostly caused bydifferent pathological processes. so in comparing these two species, amazingly, it turns outthat while we humans, essentially all of our heart attacks are due to what you heard about, atherosclerotic coronaryblockade in the arteries, chimpanzees do get atherosclerosis, but it rarely ever leadsto coronary thrombosis. instead, they get thisvery peculiar kind of

scarring in the myocardium,in the heart muscle, fibrosis, so-called interstitial myocardialfibrosis in great apes. this gives rise to abnormalrhythms, heart failure, and heart attacks, so it looks like humans but in autopsies, it'sa different disease. in fact, since we wrote this article now put this out, it'sbecome so well-recognized that interstitial myocardialfibrosis is such a major common in captivegreat apes in all the zoos

that all the zoos led by zooatlanta have gotten together and found a network to figureout what is this disease, and why is it killing all our great apes. and so there are twomysteries to be solved. one is, why do we humans not often get this fibrotic heartdisease that's so common in our closest evolutionary cousins? conversely, why dogreat apes not often get the kind of heart disease we get

that's so common in humans? since we're genetically so similar, there must be a verylimited number of reasons. we'd immediately say, "ah,it's just cholesterol." in fact, cholesterol is the leading thing that pushes atherosclerotic heart disease, but look at this figure here. above is the black line, chimpanzee levels of cholesterol.

even at birth and soon afterbirth in the first decade, they're so high that theyshould be on statins. and they have similar hdl levels. they have apoe4 ancestralallele, higher lp(a) levels, sedentary lifestyles,hypertension, and so on. now, to be fair, there aresome amino acid differences in those two very important proteins and that may be part of the story. so based on this kind ofwork, nissi varki and i

went to several of these primate centers and tried to learn more aboutthis biomedical differences. in this case, we'refocusing on differences. i wanna be clear, thereare many similarities, which i'm not gonna talk about. and so we, of course, workedon sialic acid biology. that's another story for another day, but this article also talksabout those differences. so here's a list of candidates

for human-specific diseasesthat i call definite, meaning the data so farsuggest that long list. obviously, i'm not going togo through the whole list. i'll give you a few examples. the big one, of course,that i mentioned is this remarkable difference in therates of coronary thrombosis was this interstitial myocardial fibrosis. in fact, spontaneous coronary thrombosis due to atherosclerosisseems to be very rare

in other animals, in theabsence of experimental genetic or dietary manipulations. and the human-specific mechanics,undoubtedly as mentioned, have to do partly withbehavioral and dietary changes, although i'm looking forwardto the talk from mike gurvin on this hunter-gatherer heart disease, these amino acid changesin these two proteins, and something i'm not gonna go into, genetic change in sialicacid that seems to have

made our immune cells muchmore prone to inflammation and also contributes to the effects of red meat and heart attacks, but that's, of course, a specialized case. here's another disease, malignant malaria, the big killer malaria. horrible, horriblestudies done in the 1920s and 1940s in the belgian congo, two-way cross-transfusionsbetween chimpanzees

and humans infected ornon-infected with malaria. no evidence of across infection. it turned out the parasites look the same but are different. fast forward almost a century and work by carta member franciscoayala and others showed that all the falciparum inthe world, this killer malaria belongs to a very smallplate in the midst of many, many, many other ape malarias.

in fact, barbara han later showed that plasmodium falciparum probably arose by a single transfer fromone gorilla to a human, sometime we don't know exactly when, a few tens of thousands of years ago. so pascal gagneuxasummarized it like this. ape malarias are very common, and because of the sialic acid change, i'm not going to go into,

we escaped the targetand we had a free ride for a million years or so, but the parasites always win in the end. and finally the parasitein that one transfer switched to bind thehuman kind of sialic acid and then, of course,we spread to mosquitoes in our environment, andthe rest is history. here's another one,typhoid fever, big killer throughout human historyuntil very recently.

and it turns out there's beena host adaptation to humans. again, most horriblestudies done in the 1960s, large doses of salmonella typefever given to chimpanzees. survival was much better, andthey were much less sensitive. it turns out we can findan explanation for this. there's a human kind of sialic acid shown on this side of the screen, and the other side of the screen, gc is the chimpanzee type of sialic acid.

and the typhoid toxin only binds to the human kind of sialic acid. and so using most models,we can sort of show that this is what's going on, that we have thesensitivity and resistance. cholera, robert koch, thefamous microbiologist said, "although these experimentsare constantly repeated "with material from fresh cholera cases, "our mice remained healthy.

"we then made experimentson monkeys, cats, "poultry, dogs, and other animals, "and we were never ableto arrive at anything "similar to a cholera process." so far, there's nothingexcept a baby rabbit model. of course, there's explanation for this. now i've been talking mostlyabout infectious disease from jared diamond and others, and if you look in thebottom of the screen,

you can see that certaindiseases like rabies can spread throughout many animals. and then eventually a diseasemakes its way into humans and by what's called the red queen effect, becomes highly specialized on one species. and so some of this is not so surprising, but the fact is thatthere are such diseases. there's one set of definite diseases that are kinda interesting.

these are gonorrhea,various other organisms that infect newborns. but it appears that thesebacteria have done is invent the human kind ofsialic acid and coat themselves in what my colleague, victornizet, calls molecular mimicry, basically wolves in sheep's clothing. and they're very successful pathogens. okay, so that's some examples. i haven't gone through all ofthem human-specific diseases

that seem to be human-specific. what about probable ones? alzheimer's disease. another carta member, docfinch has written this. commentary: is alzheimer'sdisease uniquely human? "that alzheimer's disease maybe a human-specific disease "was hypothesized in 1989. "apes accumulate considerableamyloid plaques after 40, "an age at which theseare uncommon in humans.

"despite this earlyplaque buildup, ape brains "have not shown dystrophicneurites near plaques. "aging great ape brainsalso have few tangles. "we cautiously support this hypothesis." and this is under further investigation. carcinomas of epithelial origin. to date, of these few thousandapes cared for in captivity, not a single case ofcarcinoma of the esophagus, lung, stomach, pancreas, colon,uterus, ovary or prostate.

and so nissi and i lookedinto this and concluded that while relative carcinomarisk is a likely difference between humans andchimpanzees and other apes, a more systematic survey is needed. of course, age is a factor,not just environment. and so you'd say, well,a lot of these diseases we're mentioning have to do with age. but in fact, chimpanzeesin captivity can live up to the age of 45, 50,occasionally even up to 60.

and so they are in the age range, if you're looking at therates of human cancer here in human males and females,but you might expect to at least see a few carcinomas, a few heart attacks of the human kind and a few early cases ofalzheimer's-like disease, but none have been seen. possible examples. another long list.

and here we have what iscalled absence of evidence, it's not evidence of absence. we really don't know. but it's kinda interestingthat bronchial asthma, i've been looking for acase of bronchial asthma in a great ape, or forthat matter, in a monkey, and there's no papers about this, except the papers like this. here's a paper aboutthe asthma-like syndrome

in a single monkey that says "the present case is remarkable "in that there's a paucity ofreports of naturally occurring "allergy airway diseasein non-human primates." this could have to do withthe hygiene hypothesis. other issues remains to be seen. anyway, to conclude,disease profiles of humans and chimpanzees are rather different, considering howgenetically similar we are.

chimpanzees, contrary to the original idea of nih and healthsciences, are poor models of many human disease,and should not be used to model human diseasesvery often, if at all. humans, conversely, arelikely to be poor models of many chimpanzee diseases. so there are huge ethical issues here. chimpanzees are sentient beings. i wouldn't do anything to a chimpanzee

i wouldn't do it to a human, and with even greatercare than with humans. and back in 2005, jimmore, pascal gagneuxa and i wrote this ethics paper. we suggested that we conductresearch on great apes following principles generally similar to those accepted for human research, and even suggested that the researchers should volunteer to besubjects in the same studies.

(audience laughing) since i wrote this, i keep getting these letters saying, "please sign this document "banning all futureresearch on chimpanzees." and my answer is, "that's a terrible idea. "would you ban all futureresearch on humans?" but unfortunately, that's what's happened for other reasons, really good reasons of getting chimpanzees out ofnot-very-good facilities

and avoiding invasive research. then i just threw up its hand on this, stopped all chimpanzeeresearch, practically speaking. and the question is, will theban on chimpanzee research actually do more harmthan good to both species? and add to that a final corollary,chimpanzees would benefit from more ethical studiesof their own diseases, and i'm hoping that we can still keep this area of research open because

i think it's important forboth humans and chimpanzees and the diseases that we both get. thank you. - one out of every four deaths basically in the us and the uk are from heart disease. so it's basically the number one killer, not just in the industrialized world, and a major source of cost

burning our health care system, but also around the world, including in developing world, that heart disease and itsmore insidious form of it, atherosclerosis, is the source of say, every three out of 10 deathsaround the world today. so it's so familiar to usthat the obvious question is well, is atherosclerosisreally a universal aspect of just human aging?

it's sort of an inevitable aspect. by the time you're 20,you probably already have some of the fatty streaksthat will later go on to become more complicated lesions and create problems for us. or is that not the case? and so, maybe atherosclerosis,the process is universal but maybe it does ordoes not always present clinical manifestations thatwill affect our morbidity,

and ultimately, mortality. so a standard kind ofstory is that if we could zoom back into the past andlook at hunter-gatherers, that hunter-gathererswouldn't have these types of heart disease, orother types of problems, and that it's modernfeatures of our lifestyle that is making us ill,that there's a mismatch between our genetic adaptations and modern features of lifestyle.

so changes in our nutrition, our diet, our physical activity, ourbad habits as barbara said, like cigarette smokingand alcohol consumption, that these are maybewhat create the problem, and that hunter-gathererswould have little or no coronary heart disease. and the evidence for this is often focused on some risk factors, so cholesterol, type iidiabetes, low prevalence,

that their risk factors seemto suggest a healthy heart. but there are some problems here is that we don't really know that in these types of populations that heart disease is fairly absent. first of all, thenumbers are fairly small. and often, there'd be amedical team, like in the 1950s or 60s that would sweep through a village, but fairly quickly.

and so, it could be thatpeople who have heart disease died fairly quickly from it, and so unless you've spenta long time in an area, you might not actually see the real cases if the case fatality rate is quite high. and it could be that,you know, those people got weeded out of the population early. and so if you looked atpeople over the age of 60, no one has heart disease maybe because

they died earlier on in life. but also, the assessmentis fairly indirect as i mentioned, you know, it's easy to kind of take someone's blood pressure, to measure how much cholesterol they have, to measure their bmi, but it's much harder to get a direct assessment. and of course, if certain risk factors worked differently indifferent human populations,

then it might not be aone-to-one relationship that the risk factors tell you about the actual underlying heart disease. and one good example from the 70s, was kind of became aestablished fact almost that the inuit up near the arctic north, and in alaska and greenland in particular, that they don't have atherosclerosis, and they don't have heart disease,

and particularly their marine-rich diet and particularly omega-3swas one good reason why despite a very meat-based diet, that they would not have heart disease. but it actually turns out there were some unreliable mortality statistics some of those earlierinferences were based on and further kind of x-rayand ultrasound studies actually show the opposite,

that there is quite a decentamount of atherosclerosis and that heart disease didn'treally look that different from near surrounding populations, and that stroke might even be higher. and also, more recent meta-analyses show no effect of omega-3 fishoils on heart-related deaths, heart attacks and strokes. so the standard story isactually a little bit different when you look into it in more detail.

and also, the horus group, which we'll see a little bit more further in the talk, looked at a unique sample of 137 mummies across four world regions, so ancient egypt, ancient peru, the southwest of the us,and the aleutian islands, and across 4,000 years of history, and he looked at different arterial beds for evidence of calcification.

so a more direct measure using ct scans, whole body ct scans of these mummies. so for example, here you've got, these are both two unanganwomen from the aleutian islands, up here, is woman about50, here a woman about 30, and you can see someevidence of calcification in the aortic arch on topand in the carotid artery down here on the bottom. and what they found wasevidence of calcification

across all arterial beds, across all four populations. and so they argued that, their conclusion was thatwe found that heart disease is a serial killer that'sbeen stalking mankind for thousands of years. the presence of atherosclerosisin pre-modern human beings suggests that the diseaseis an inherent component of human aging, and not characteristic

of any specific diet or lifestyle. so now the paleo dietpeople hated this, right, because they were basicallysaying, "look, it's all over, "it doesn't matter what you eat. "we find evidence of this everywhere." but of course, all themummies have been long dead so it's hard to know whatthey actually died of and whether that atherosclerosis might have been relevantto their daily lives.

now also, if we're ridingoff of adjit's talk, we now know that chimpanzees, while the number onecause of death in captives is heart attacks, it's not exactly coming from the same ideologyas human heart attacks that chimpanzees do not seem to have the same kind of atherosclerosis, coronary artery disease is rare, but the heart failureinstead is through this

diffused interstitial myocardial fibrosis often triggered by arrythmias. you can see the diffused kind of fibrosis in the hearttissue in chimpanzees, the kind of sub-endothelial plaques in the human interior lumen, that this is very different. and in captive chimpanzees,despite the fact that they have higher cholesterol levels,

they're homozygous foralleles in the apoe4 that are higher risk ofatherosclerosis in humans and less physical activity, so quite remarkable difference. now the standard kindof evolutionary story brought to us by someevolutionary biologists in the critical foundational contributions medawar as well as holdane and hamilton, that basically that the force of selection

declines with age asfertility is dropping, so the relative contributionsfor future generations are declining, and soyou can have mutations that exert effects latein life that might be somewhat blind to theeffects of natural selection, especially if they havebeneficial effects early in life. so what that means is thatyou've got deleterious effects that manifest, say, later in life, fall under the selection shadow.

and it actually turns out when you actually look at the cases, this is from us data, the actual incidence of heart attacks and failcoronary heart disease, that those cases do fallinto this selection shadow. so one kind of knee-jerkresponse is, well, maybe again, these things havealways been with us, but in hunter-gatherers, if you're not gonna live to this kind of age range,

then you're not gonna seethese types of ailments. and so that might be the end of story, and that our longerlives in modern society is why we see so much more of it today. but that doesn't reallyseem to be the case. if we take some of thebest demographic data out there on hunter-gatherersas kind of a key, obviously, livinghunter-gatherers are not the same as our ancestors, but it'sthe closest thing we have

to try to understandwhat life and mortality might be like withoutall the modern amenities. and so, in hunter-gathererswhere the average life expectancy at birthis in the either high 20s or low 30s, compared to what we're used to in the us and other first-world countries is a dramatic difference. but if you notice, this is the ratio of the mortality in hunter-gatherers,

say, the american mortalityand it's quite high, the difference, but mostof those differences are early in life. and that by the timeyou get to, say age 15, the mortality differencehas dropped from, say 200, early in life to 14 timeshigher in hunter-gatherers, to about age 40, seven timeshigher in hunter-gatherers, and by age 60, that mortality difference is only three times higher.

so if you live past thisearly period of high mortality and you survived to age 15, the mortal age of adult death is actuallyit ranges from 68 to 78 in this hunter-gatherer populations. so it's not probably the case that the absence of older people is why we don't seethese types of problems presenting these kinds of populations. so i wanted to move beyond mortality

and actually look at living bodies to see, well, okay, twopeople actually have some more direct evidence. and so since i mentioned since 1999, we've been working incentral lowland bolivia with the tsimane, so again,horticulturist population that share many similaritieswith hunter-gatherers, their fertility is quite high, their fairly high pathogen load,

most of their diet, not all their diet basically coming from the land, from fish, from their fields and also from wild game. taking advantage of the french government donating a 16-slice ct scanner, just a mere 10 hours andseveral days in a canoe away, we brought people to the ct scanner to get a more directmeasure of atherosclerosis through looking at coronaryarterial calcification

based on thoracic ct scans. so using the exact samemethods for scoring as in us studies, whatwe compared americans to the tsimani, it actually turns out that well, the tsimanis, these are here in red, there is evidence ofatherosclerosis, of calcification, but the levels are much lowerthan what we see in the us. now the mesa, this isthe multi-ethnic study of atherosclerosis.

these are asymptomaticpeople without heart disease or diabetes that are in the sample. so compared to those,the percentage of people with any calcificationis much, much lower. and in fact, the tsimani reached a level that the americans have, that'sa gap of over 20, 25 years. and so one easier way of thing about this and this kind of obscurecalcification scoring is what's called the arterial age,

and this is basically what age, based on the cac score you have, was that at the equivalentof someone in the mace study. and compared to what you would expect based on just the calcification score, that the tsimanis showevidence that basically estimated arterial ages, that are about 20, 25 years younger thantheir chronological age. but the great thing aboutworking with living people,

if the story ended there, we might say, well, look, just like wefound with the mummies, there's atherosclerosis in the tsimani. but here at the clinicalfindings really suggest minimum manifestations of atherosclerosis. so over the past decade,we found minimal obesity, hypertension, cigarette smoking, moderate-high physical activity, low cholesterol levels,

low your bad, your low densitylipoprotein cholesterol, low blood glucose, so all the risk factors are fairly minimal. and then if we actuallylook based on ekgs, if we look for evidence of past infarcts, over 1,100 ekgs, we'velooked at people 40 and up, maybe one case of an infarct looked at by our team of cardiologists. and even that, a coupleof the cardiologists

think it's dubious. and also based on other evidence with ekgs and also with ultrasound, evidence of preserved systolicand diastolic function. and it's not the casethat the young people that have these conditions, then are dying at early ages, or that these people havehigh case fatality rates, so based on verbal autopsies,over the past 15 years,

we don't see very much evidence at all, in fact, like maybe one case of someone who may have died of a heart attack. so there really doesn'tseem like there's evidence of mortality selection that is explaining these differences away. now this is in spite of the fact, you know they have some protective factors but they also have veryhigh levels of inflammation.

and you know, in the past 20 years or so, it's well-known that inflammationis a major risk factor. in fact, it is afundamental to the process of what we know about atherosclerosis, and by a number of biomarkers,ce reactive protein is one many of you might be familiar with because you often get it doneby your own clinician. they have very high levelsand cumulative levels over their life course, levels that would

basically associate withhaving heart disease amongst ourselves. and they also have low levels of the high-density lipoproteinsor good cholesterol. so a few take-home messagesfor a larger biomedical field. first of all, it doesn't seemlike the inflammation story is very complete, that thesame kind of risk factor might not exert the sametypes of effects everywhere. i mean, probably would not have known that

if we didn't look at populations that are i guess as katie brought up, looking at non-weird populations, and particularlypopulations that experience lots of infection and have very different kind of lifestyle than we have. and in fact, not only do they have high levels of inflammation, but biomarkers of inflammationare either unrelated

or in some ways oppositelyassociated with our measures of arterial calcificationand other indicators and it could be thatinflammation that we experience from cigarette smoking, from obesity, the so-called sterile inflammation might have differenteffects than inflammation that is induced under the conditions more representative of the past which would be more from infection.

but also, there are othertypes of infections, particularly helminths,these are intestinal worms, our old friends that we've carried with us for long, long periods ofour evolutionary history, that they exert regulatoryeffects on the immune system and also anti-inflammatoryeffects that might perhaps protect against theotherwise destructive effects of inflammation. and the other take-home is that

what we consider averagemight not be really normal. so james o'keefe, a physicianback in the early 2000s, argued the case based on randomized placebo-controlled studies with statins that if you look atthe chronic ldl levels, and you looked at a whole bunch of things, this is just the decrease over time in the lumenal diameter, sothe interior of the artery, but you gotta changethe y axis and make it

heart attacks and other cardiac events, that when you actually looked at how the occurrence of these things in relation to the chronic ldl levels, it seemed to be a somewhatlinear relationship to the point where if you draw the line, that you would expectto almost zero events. in this particular graph,it would mean basically a slowing of atherosclerosisto the point of stopping

at a level of about 70or just less than 70, and so they were arguingin a series of papers that the optimal ldl shouldbe something between 50 to 70, whereas your typical recommendations,at least up until 2013 when the statin-basedrecommendations changed so that we're not reaching a target level. but it used to be thata hundred was a level. but it actually turns outthere's a decent amount of heart attacks in theregion between 70 to 100.

and this is just from the tsimane, but if we looked at other populations it would be a similar case. the distribution of theldl here in the tsimane compared to americans, andit might be a little hard, sorry, to see the numbers, butthe mode in the average there is about 70 for the tsimane, whereas about 85% of americanshave ldl higher than that. and that what's yellow thereis in that 70 to 100 region

that basically many ofamericans would fall into, even if they were taking statins. so less than 70 is ahunter-gatherer level of ldl that might be more extremebut probably very difficult for us as omnivores to reach, unless perhaps you're taking statins. so just to summarize and conclude, atherosclerosis is present just like we observed in the mummies,

but it's less pervasivethan we see in the west. so certain features ofcardiovascular aging may be universal. so you might see some calcifications and stiffening of the arteries,there's some declines, they might be delayed insystolic and diastolic function, but they occur nonetheless. yet the clinical manifestation, so whether it's heartattacks, hyper tension,

peripheral arterial disease, strokes, that those themselvesmight not be universal, and were likely very rare throughout human evolutionaryhistory, despite the fact that we can observecalcifications in these mummies. and also i think it behooves us to revisit common risk factors. that inflammation might be high in hunter-gatherer populations,but immune function

might be better regulated ina very different environment, particularly in presence of amore diverse set of pathogens. and it also raises thequestion of what is normal, what are the target levelsof different biomarkers like ldl that we should be reaching, what might they have been like over the course of evolutionary history. and to take advantage of the fact, if we hadn't looked at apopulation like the tsimane,

these non weird populations, so we can actually learn quite a bit about our own health in, say, the u.s., by focusing on people thatare more likely to have certain types of infectionsthat could be cardio-protective. even a lot of our standardmodel organisms in the lab are infection-free, and sothere might some limitations of what can be gained. and also taking advantage of the fact,

and the horror of the fact, that all indigenouspopulations around the world are in different states of flux, so it's a kind of quasi-natural laboratory for looking at the changesin lifestyle and environment on how that shapes increasesin type ii diabetes risk and in heart disease. and so it's sort of untappedterritory that very, in fact i don't know anybiomedically-oriented folks

that are working in thesepopulations to try to learn more about the underlying ideology. and so for the future, one thing that a take-home message is if the story was just that "look, exercise more,eat well, don't smoke." we already knew. those are your standard framinghamstudy kinda risk factors. and i think those domake a big difference.

but also, regulated immune function in the presence of certain parasites might also have some protectiveaspects on their heart. and that maybe in the future we might see that the hygiene hypothesis, this idea that we're not exposed to the same type of crittersas we would have in the past, that not only helps explainauto-immune type diseases currently, but also may beextended to heart disease.

thank you very much for your time. - so i will discuss todaythe relation between inflammation and metabolismand metabolic homeostasis and diseases susceptibility. inflammation is a protective response to a variety of challengesthat we may experience, including infection and injury and various types of tissuestress and malfunctions and all the things that can go wrong.

all of them can inducean inflammatory response that meant to be protective. and depending on the type ofchallenge that we experience, there's different physiologicalor intended purpose of the responses, such ashost defense from infection, tissue repair response or restoration of a normal state of the tissues. and what is very interestingabout inflammation and very clinically important is that

all these differentpathways to inflammation can result in a varietyof pathological sequel, including auto-immune diseases, sepsis, fibrotic diseases, tumor growth, and a variety of diseases for homeostasis that are becoming more and more common in modern lifestyles. to give a very, very simplifiedsummary of inflammation of inflammatory pathway.

when inducers of inflammation such as pathogens or tissuedamage are encountered, cells in our bodies, such as macrophages and epithelial cells and so on detect these inducers and produce various inflammatory mediators,including cytokines that some of them were mentioned already. and what these mediators do, they act on practicallyevery tissue in the body

and they change somefunctional characteristics that intend to either cause elimination of whatever caused inflammation, or adaptation to thepresence of these conditions. and why inflammation is sobroadly associated with diseases, very symbolically, itcould be summarized here. so for every trait,including defense traits, there are benefits and costs for defenses. the cost are particularly pronounced.

and the traits wouldbe evolutionary stable if the benefits are higher than the costs. and anything in thisgreen part of the triangle would be therefore potentiallyevolutionary stable and everything here would be unstable. and the problem is that,in the case of traits that can provide very highbenefits such as survival, the acceptable cost can also be very high. and that leads to this type of picture

where the part of this upper triangle that's on the right side where benefit can still outweigh the cost but in terms of theabsolute value of the cost, this would be already, fromthe patient perspective at least, and the doctor's perspective, this would be already in the disease zone. this would be conditionsthat we would experience as something that isdefinitely not well being

and doctors would diagnoseas being various types of pathological or diseaseconditions even though they still provide morebenefit than the cost. and what we're interestedin is in the biology of this upper right corner,where the high benefits associated with very highcost and where we basically on the edge of the chaos or transition into the pathological statesthat can be potentially lethal. and this type of biology deals with

not just common conditions, like mild infections or mild anomalies, but it has to do with,essentially biology of survival. what are the kinds ofmechanisms that are employed by our system, by ourorganism in order to survive critical conditions? the ones the are justone step away from death. and this is just in a very schematic way summarized here, so if weconsider this type of disease tree

there're many conditions that we can one step away from health this various common mild illnesses, this has conditions that make you go to see a primary care physician. if there're complicationsof this conditions you get referred to someinternal medicine specialist. these are more complex diseases, but you can still recoverand go back to health.

and in severe cases you can get into this critical illness statewhen you get into icu. and you still can recover from here, and in this critical illness state, which is conditions likesepsis, pneumonia, heart attack, brain damage and so forth. in these conditions you areone step away from this tree proximal mechanisms thatlead directly to death. and these are points of no return,

which is respiratory failure,cardiovascular failure, or damage to the brain areasthat control respiration and cardiovascular function. so we're interested in what happens here, what kind of mechanisms may be evolved to prevent this transitioninto this point of no return. the case i will discuss today has to do with this very enigmaticand very interesting and familiar to everyone,

set of conditions knownas sickness behaviors. this is something everybodyin this room experience when you have flu or anyother type of severe infection or other types of acuteillness, we all experience this set of conditionssuch as loss of appetite, social withdrawal, fatigue, sleepiness and so on and so forth. so these are all stereotypic conditions that are associated with acute illness,

most commonly with acute infections. so flue symptoms wouldall be in that category. and the biology of sickness behavior has not been really well-understood, although there were earlystudies that demonstrated that sickness behavioris not just a consequence of system being destroyed by a pathogen, but rather these are motivated behaviors, in other words they areintended by the organism

for some reason. and there's been many speculations that whether there isaspects of sickness behavior, perhaps held the immunesystem to fight infection or maybe there's some otherway that they may contribute to dealing with acute illness. so we were interested in investigating aspects of acute illness,including loss of appetite and change in sleeping patterns,and how they may contribute

to survival of the acute illness. so there are two ways wecan survive an infection or any other challenge for that matter. we can either resist it, soin the case of infection, normally where we would be in this state, where we're healthy and there's a low or a negligible pathogen load, and as we get infectedand pathogen expand, we can become ill asindicated by this position,

and from here, we caneither go back to health by getting rid ofpathogen, which is the role of the immune system,and this is referred to a resistance to disease, or we can adapt to thepresence of the pathogen and go back to the healthystate despite microbial load. and this would be referredto as increased tolerance to infection or tolerance to damage. there are two ways thatpathogens cause damage.

one is directly through tissuedestruction through toxins, viral infections and so forth. and the second more commonway that pathogens infections call illness is due todamage by the inflammation caused by infection. and so we were interested in figuring out whether sickness behaviorsprovide benefit first of all, secondly whether they providebenefit because they promote immune function andresistance to infection,

or whether they providebenefit by promoting tissue protection and toleranceto inflammatory damage or pathogen induced damage. just like in humans andmice or in any animals that've been studied allthe way back to insects, when they are ill with acuteinfection, they stop eating, this is food consumptionin mice after they received a dose of listeria infection. this is common foodpoisoning type of infection.

they stop eating and untilthey start clearing infection and they start recovering andthen they start eating again. but there's a very profound anorexia associated with infectionas you can see here. so some studies done over40 years ago actually found that in the model of listeria infection, if mice are force-fedthen mortality increases. and this is what we reproduce here. so this is showing survivalof mice that are given

ld 50 dose of listeria, thosethat kills half of mice, and this is what's shown here. and if they're force-fedthen all of them die. and they were fed just 20%of daily caloric intake, so they're not really stuffed with food, they're just given a little bit of food and that kills them. and the food that we use is actually the same food that's used in icu units.

and then we ask whatcomponent of food kills. so we gave them separately proteins, fat, and sugar. and it turns out that sugaralone or glucose alone was sufficient to kill them,whether it was given orally or intravenously. so just giving them a small dose of sugar, only 2% of normal dailycaloric intake of glucose, was sufficient to kill 100% of mice.

conversely, if we gave themglucose inhibitor called 2dg, 2-deoxyglucose, it's amodified form of glucose that cannot be metabolized soit blocks glucose utilization then 100% of mice would survive. and importantly, this was notbecause the immune system was affected in its ability to treatto get rid of the pathogen, and it's not becausethere was high dose of higher magnitude of inflammation, because there were not different between

mice given glucose ornot as you can see here. so this indicated thatmice survived or died from this manipulation because of the affecton tissue protection, not on the immune function itself. so then ask what would happen in the most severe condition, like sepsis. sepsis is the condition wheninfection becomes systemic, when it gets into blood.

in this case it's a bacterialsepsis that's mimicked by giving mice thiscomponent and a toxin lps. and as you can see here, ifmice given lps or septic mice, if they are given food, they die. compared to a control, where they're just given saline solution. and importantly ifthey're just given sugar, then they all drop dead. but most excitingly they'rejust getting the simple drug

that blocks glucose utilization, then 100% of them canbe rescued from sepsis. and sepsis is a reallyterrible intractable condition that is still a very commoncause of death in icus. so again, the mortalityor protection from death in these manipulations was not dependent on the degree ofinflammation as shown here, was example of a coupleof inflammatory mediators. and again, indicating that it was due to

increased tissue protection from damage caused by severe inflammation that is associated with sepsis. then we asked what would happen in a different type of infection. so, so far i showed bacterial infection and bacterial sepsis, andnow we ask what would happen in influenza virus infection. so when mice are infected withflu virus, again they undergo

this period of anorexiawhen they stop eating until they start recovering. and if they're force-fed,to our great surprise, they actually survive better. so this is now giving almostlethal dose of flu infection, most mice die, but whenthey're given that food most of them survived. and also if they're given glucose that also provided partial protection,

and if they're given 2dg glucose inhibitor then all of them dropped dead. so it was exact opposite to what happened in bacterial infectionand bacterial sepsis. and again, the effect of glucosewas not due to its impact on inflammatory response. so in viral infectionsit's a different type of inflammatory response,which is dominated by interference shownhere, they're the same.

and those of burden ofthe virus in the lungs was also the same, was not different. again, suggesting theeffects are due to impact on tolerance to tissue damage. and the data that i'm not gonnashow, but i summarized here, what we found is that deathfrom viral inflammation was associated withdecline in vital functions, like respiration, blood pressure, so on, suggesting that there was a failure

in autonomic controlcenters in the brain stem. and if mice are given food or glucose, then these declines in autonomicfunctions could be rescued, they're given 2dg, they're enhanced. in contrast, death frombacterial sepsis was associated with neuronal damage in the mid-brain area and the death was immediatelyproceeded by convulsions. and these were blocked by 2dg and they were enhanced by glucose.

so we did pet scan analysis and found that glucose utilization under conditions of bacterial inflammationversus viral inflammation was very different, and it segregated exactlyto this to this brain areas. such that in viral inflammation it was primarily in brain stem, and in bacterial inflammationit was in mid-brain area. the increased deliveryof glucose to this areas

related to the impact ofglucose or glucose inhibitors on the damage to these areas. and then we asked what doesthe mechanism of damage and what's happening there. so i will just summarizethat part of the study. what we found was that in thecase of viral inflammation, what happens with cells thatare infected with a virus, one of the things that happens, there is particular type ofcellular stress response,

known as unfolded proteinresponse, that has two branches. one branch tries to adaptto this stress condition and to resolve it, and if that fails, the second branch would killthe cells, as a second option. and this death from thisresponse is mediated by this particular gene called chop, it's a transcription factor. and what is known is that glucosedeprivation can exacerbate in unfolded protein response,this stress response pathway.

and so we hypothesizedthat that brain stem area, the neurons in the brain stem, for reasons that remain mysterious, underwent this excessiveunfold protein response stress that was ameliorated byglucose and exacerbated by 2dg. and then we asked whetherthis pathway of cell death or neuronal damage mediatedby this gene is involved. and for that we asked whethermice that have a mutation in this gene, whetherthey would be rescued

from the effect of suchinflammatory manipulation. and indeed what we found, ifwe just look at this blue line, these are mice that have infection, that have viral inflammation, and they'd given 2dg they all die, and if they don't have that gene chop, then they all survive. and so the mechanism hereis related to a blockade of this pathway for neuron dysfunction.

and finally in the case ofsepsis or bacterial inflammation, fasting metabolism thatprotected them from death was related to the switchfrom normal fat metabolism to a fasted metabolism,which there's a switch to fuels from glucose toketones, and that which was necessary for mice to survive sepsis. and this is shown here,that giving glucose blocked transition to fasting metabolismand deletion of the gene that is responsible for keone production,

made mice susceptible to sepsis. as i mentioned immediately before death, mice had convulsion in sepsis. so what we did in thisfinal set of experiments, if we gave the mice anti-epileptic drug called valporic acid,then we could rescue them from death even whenthey're given glucose. and so that indicated thatthe reason that that worked is because valporic acid, unlikethis other drug shown here,

which is keppra, which isalso anti-convulsion drug, valporic acid, one of itsmechanism is related to the effect through the sameeffect that ketones have on a particular classof enzymes in the cell. so i will summarize it here, that there are twodifferent pathways to death, and fasting metabolismis protective in one case and detrimental in the other case. and the final, the implicationfor human treatment in icu

is that all clinical trials done so far, with nutrient manipulationin icu units have been done on patients that have not been separated based on cause of sepsis,bacterial versus viral. and the results of the studies were mixed. and we think that it's becausethey were not separated and they basicallycancelled each other out. so now we are planning toconduct a clinical trial where we'll separate them,based on causes of sepsis.

so this is the summary andfinally this work was done by three very talentedscientist in the lab, harding luan, sarah huen, and andrew wang. and we had help fromother colleagues at yale, and thank you for your attention.

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